KEF Q Meta is Coming

[Soulone]

Now to your question if you prioritize high listening levels and/or deep bass the Q7/Q11 could be a better choice as due to few reasons its less problematic to increase per EQ the tweeter level then the bass one or even more the bass depth.

The speakers are connected to both a Purifi EVAL1 amplifier (with a SHD Studio as the source) and to an AVR (RZ70). My "issue" is that the subwoofer isn't integrated with the SHD, which means I'm not getting the extra bass that the R3 might require. So, as you correctly mentioned, the Q11 or Q7 should be the options to consider probably....

 

[VietnamRadioEnjoyer]

Looking at the measurements, I'm so confused to see the 3-ways start falling off near 15kHz. do they use a different tweeter? or is it a measurement artifact?

 

[MarcT]

Looking at the measurements, I'm so confused to see the 3-ways start falling off near 15kHz. do they use a different tweeter? or is it a measurement artifact?

KEF gotta sell those R and higher line towers, you know! Given KEF's level of engineering ability, no other reason comes readily to mind.

 

[FBech]

I am using Whaferdale Diamonds 12.3 and I was thinking to upgrade to the Q7 meta. I am using a Technics SAC600 amp, would the Q7 be too much speaker for this amp?

I got to listen to the Q7 with Arcam A5, and I liked them a lot.

 

[thewas]

Looking at the measurements, I'm so confused to see the 3-ways start falling off near 15kHz. do they use a different tweeter? or is it a measurement artifact?

It's a different and smaller tweeter which has advantages as its wider radiation and probably lower product price but also disadvantages like the upper end response and probably also less maximum SPL.

 

[testp]

it will be interesting to see what the next Kef product update will use in tweeter size, that will show the direction for other revisions as well

 

[audiofan7464]

I've had a pair of Q Concerto Metas and a Q6 Meta for about six weeks now. I haven't see all that much discussion online regarding the new speakers, so I thought I'd add my two cents.

A little bit of background. I have a dedicated home theater room, with a JVC NP5 projector, but had seriously neglected the audio side of things for a long time. I'd actually had my previous speakers for about 20 years or so (time flies!). I had 4 B&W 685 S1 speakers for L/R/SL/SR, a HTM62 Centre and Polk FXi A4s for rear surrounds. Sub was a SVS PB10-ISD which I believe is equivalent to the PB1000. The sound was serviceable but I always found it a bit lacking in terms of a cinematic experience.

I now have the Concertos, Q6 and two Tonewinner D6000 15" subwoofers. Surrounds/rear surrounds are still the B&Ws/Polk but I'm planning to upgrade to Q4 surrounds and Q1 rear surrounds soon. I have a Denon 3800 hooked up to an external 7 channel amp.

It's been a little bit of a journey with speaker placement, Audyssey, etc. but I would now just say that I'm really enjoying the speakers. The Concertos are probably a little closer to the rear and side walls than is ideal and there was definitely some initial boominess as a result. It was initially solved by using the plugs, but I'm now using them without plugs and have used Audyssey to address the lower frequencies.

I had initially used Audyssey and wasn't satisifed with the overall sound. But did some reading and learnt about the 'mid range compensation' that can be adjusted with the app. Turning this off did definitely help improve clarity, but I found that music and movie vocals were too harsh for my liking. I then ended up creating two Audyssey configurations using the app. One full-range, with MRC disabled. The other up to 502Hz. I uploaded both to the Denon and using the quick select feature could easily A/B them.

Ultimately, I much prefer using the preset with Audyssey up to 502Hz. It, combined with crossing over to the sub at 80Hz, addresses the boominess in the bass. But it leaves the rest of the frequencies untouched and to my taste. I'm also not using Dynamic EQ or volume. The full-range Audyssey whilst maybe slightly improving clarity, made the sound to 'thin', 'bright' and 'harsh' for my liking. Movies didn't feel cinematic and music vocals often became irritating.

I also purchased a UMIK1 and have played around with REW a bit. I can definitely see that the the full-range Audyssey creates a relatively flat response curve. But without Audyssey, the response is fairly flat but SPL slopes down from about 1KHz. But to my ears and with my room I definitely prefer the native behaviour of the speakers.

Some other things I learnt along the way was the importance of having the right cables, especially as the speakers ars 4ohm and can dip to 3.2. I had some fairly thin guage cable and about a 10m run which I think muddied up the sound a bit. I'm now using 12AWG cable. I was also initially AirPlaying to the Denon but learnt that this does not actually stream lossless audio. So I now play music by using an AppleTV and the 'control other device' option from my phone. I understand that this actually plays lossless audio and there is a noticeable difference.

Initially I also had the speakers toed in quite a lot, so that they were pointing at the MLP. But I found vocals a bit muddy/lost. When I adjusted the speakers to having basically no toe-in I felt the clarity improve greatly. Not sure if this is more due to my room or the speakers. Also, whilst I can see a measurable difference to certain frequencies from the toe-in vs/no toe-in with REW, I don't full understand why it made such a big difference to the vocals.

Also, the final thing I will say is that despite initially buying the speakers mainly for movie-watching, I've actually end up listening to and enjoying music way more than I had expected. I used to mainly just listen to music with headphones, but that has now really changed.

Sorry for the long post, as I said I haven't seen all that much discussion online so thought I'd share my thoughts. It has also been a bit of a journey with Audyssey, speaker placement etc. and wanted to share that too. Happy to answer questions if anyone has any.

 

[testp]

Also, whilst I can see a measurable difference to certain frequencies from the toe-in vs/no toe-in with REW, I don't full understand why it made such a big difference to the vocals.

This is prob. bc you get more room interactions (reflections) going to the sidewalls & ears are pointed at the sidewalls after all..

 

[No_hair_left]

This is prob. bc you get more room interactions (reflections) going to the sidewalls & ears are pointed at the sidewalls after all..

I thought the whole point of kef speakers were because most of the reflected sound sounds the same as direct, it shouldn't matter that much because directivity of the speaker is really good????????

 

[terryforsythe]

I thought the whole point of kef speakers were because most of the reflected sound sounds the same as direct, it shouldn't matter that much because directivity of the speaker is really good????????

Most budget focussed concentric drivers (at least the ones I have seen) have a rougher frequency response directly on axis. They probably should be toed for a smoother frequency response. DSP with the Q Concerto Meta also would not be a bad idea.

 

[testp]

...also reflected sound isnt bad sound, good speakers like kef have good off-axis dispersion, if you point the speakers more parallel to the room (off-axis:30°), there more energy off-axis but also blends with on-axis sooner, prob. before your ears, again thats a taste thing, nothing wrong about that.

 

[audiofan7464]

This is prob. bc you get more room interactions (reflections) going to the sidewalls & ears are pointed at the sidewalls after all..

I like the way you put that. Good way of conveying the impact the room has on the sound. Whilst I was definitely aware of reflections happening, I still ‘visualised’ the sound coming directly to me from the speakers.

I think it’s likely that the increased clarity for me when off axis (i.e. nearly parallel to room) is due to increased high frequency reflections. Also, when on-axis the rear of the speakers point towards the corner of the room which likely leads to a lot of low frequency reflections.

So, I think I know what’s happening but I just didn’t see it represented in REW as clearly as I expected. But that could be a case of me just being new to REW. Was mainly looking at the SPL graphs and I’m not sure if they represent what is happening with reflections.

I have some Sennheiser 560s that I quite enjoy and the sound ‘signature’ I am now getting from the speakers reminds me of what I get from the headphones.

Also one other thing to mention is that I’m now mainly listening to music with the subwoofers on, crossed over at 80Hz. So this also helps reduce the unwanted bass reflections from the Concertos in my room.

 

[audiofan7464]

Hope people don’t get sick of me posting! But another thing I’ve noticed today is that the Concertos really open up at higher volumes.

I had been listening to a particular song on my airpod pros today but was a bit disappointed at first when I listened to it on the Concertos. The sound was quite muddy. But I realised that I was listening at a much lower volume than I usually do.

Once I increased the volume it sounded great.

It’s possible that the volume also played a part in the ‘muddiness’ (i.e. poorly defined vocals) when I was playing around with the speaker positioning. So maybe not the right speaker if listening at lower volumes.

 

[JakeK]

It’s possible that the volume also played a part in the ‘muddiness’ (i.e. poorly defined vocals) when I was playing around with the speaker positioning. So maybe not the right speaker if listening at lower volumes.

I'm thinking that if you have a lot of sound absorbing room treatments they will soak up higher frequencies at lower volumes. Higher volume will defeat the amount of sound the materials can absorb.

I noticed this effect when I was adding insulation to my garage. Just before I boarded the stud wall over I had an open wall of sound absorbing rock wool type insulation. When I was listening to music in there with it like that I had to turn the speakers up a lot more to sound as loud as it was before and the treble was definitely more muted, muffled or muddy.

 

[Ognian]

Gonna give my two cents here, been running the Q7 meta for the past week and unfortunately gonna be returning them unless one of you has an idea that might give them new life.

I think room acoustics are a huge factor but I simply cannot get along with them even though in some aspects they are absolutely stunning. Precision and timbre are perfect at almost all frequncies so I really want to like them! The sweet spot is huge and satisfying even when sitting away from the center. Bass is precise but not gonna be shaking foundations, but I run an e110 for that so not a worry.

They are however very misbehaved in my space in regards to what sounds like ringing in the presence area, trumpets, copper instruments and metallic instruments just sound too piercing and their notes linger. I've tried all types of placement changes, toe-in and running REW with more or less agressive EQ. Tried plugging the ports and slamming them against the back wall. This ringing behavior for lack of a better word makes me want to turn the volume down constantly which is the opposite of my previous speakers (dynaudio x34) which I always feel like turning up.
I'm at a loss but I have some suspicions: the dispersion is so wide even vertically that I'm hearing high notes bouncing around the room more than before. Also, the boxes are very lively despite being quite heavy, and I feel like maybe they are interacting with my mostly wooden home quite a bit.

Setup details :
Q7 meta
Jl audio e110 (using its crossover only as low pass, 60hz, signal is split at the DAC)
Topping e70 playing from a PC equipped with room equalizer APO & roon
Audiophonics MPA-S250NC

Anyone had a similar experience with uni q? I'm very sad to have to return these !

 

[thewas]

I've tried all types of placement changes, toe-in and running REW with more or less agressive EQ.

I own the Q7 Meta and have quite some experience with EQ, if you send me (also per PM if you prefer) your REW measurements and the EQ you used till now I might be able to help you.

 

[aarons915]

Gonna give my two cents here, been running the Q7 meta for the past week and unfortunately gonna be returning them unless one of you has an idea that might give them new life.

I think room acoustics are a huge factor but I simply cannot get along with them even though in some aspects they are absolutely stunning. Precision and timbre are perfect at almost all frequncies so I really want to like them! The sweet spot is huge and satisfying even when sitting away from the center. Bass is precise but not gonna be shaking foundations, but I run an e110 for that so not a worry.

They are however very misbehaved in my space in regards to what sounds like ringing in the presence area, trumpets, copper instruments and metallic instruments just sound too piercing and their notes linger. I've tried all types of placement changes, toe-in and running REW with more or less agressive EQ. Tried plugging the ports and slamming them against the back wall. This ringing behavior for lack of a better word makes me want to turn the volume down constantly which is the opposite of my previous speakers (dynaudio x34) which I always feel like turning up.
I'm at a loss but I have some suspicions: the dispersion is so wide even vertically that I'm hearing high notes bouncing around the room more than before. Also, the boxes are very lively despite being quite heavy, and I feel like maybe they are interacting with my mostly wooden home quite a bit.

Setup details :
Q7 meta
Jl audio e110 (using its crossover only as low pass, 60hz, signal is split at the DAC)
Topping e70 playing from a PC equipped with room equalizer APO & roon
Audiophonics MPA-S250NC

Anyone had a similar experience with uni q? I'm very sad to have to return these !

This is definitely odd considering the measurements, the only thing that kind of jumps out is how the directivity kind of drops from 1500-3000Hz, meaning the early reflections are a bit more strong in that range, you could experiment with EQ in that range if you have PEQ. A pic of your setup might help as well

 

[holbob]

I have the Q7 and i'm using dirac to about 3k, whereas the other speakers i've used dirac on (kef r3, elac dbr62, revel m16 & m106), I only went as far as the lower mids. This shows up in the in room measurements in dirac as well (13 measurements). I also assume this is reflections. You have to be careful to not cut too much, or this will leave a hole in the midrange in the on/off axis measurements. Luckily there is a steep roll off after the presence reason, so as long as you drop the response evenly before then, there shouldn't be an issue.

What is interesting is that in Erin's measurements of the Q11 Meta, it showed a huge spike in the midrange of "ceiling bounce". I live in the UK, and have a 230cm ceiling, and it's a lounge so no way to absorb it unfortunately. That may be a reason for the need to feel that I have to "control" the sound. High volumes are a lot more intrusive than say, the Revel M106, which I could really crank it up.

 

[Ognian]

I have the Q7 and i'm using dirac to about 3k, whereas the other speakers i've used dirac on (kef r3, elac dbr62, revel m16 & m106), I only went as far as the lower mids. This shows up in the in room measurements in dirac as well (13 measurements). I also assume this is reflections. You have to be careful to not cut too much, or this will leave a hole in the midrange in the on/off axis measurements. Luckily there is a steep roll off after the presence reason, so as long as you drop the response evenly before then, there shouldn't be an issue.

What is interesting is that in Erin's measurements of the Q11 Meta, it showed a huge spike in the midrange of "ceiling bounce". I live in the UK, and have a 230cm ceiling, and it's a lounge so no way to absorb it unfortunately. That may be a reason for the need to feel that I have to "control" the sound. High volumes are a lot more intrusive than say, the Revel M106, which I could really crank it up.

This sheds some light and I am in the same situation as you, the speakers are not enjoyable the more I crank the volume. I also have a high ceiling (15ft). I'm having trouble understanding the graph you posted. In his situation, ceiling bounce is expressed as a dip in the response? Or am I reading it wrong? The huge dip I see centered around 420hz in the yellow is very close to the range of frequencies I find most intrusive with the q7. In your situation, how is your Dirac handling these?

Thanks for your input.

 

[thewas]

This shows up in the in room measurements in dirac as well (13 measurements).

Could you please post them there?