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KEF LSX Wireless & DAC/AMP

stevesavanna

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Hi,

I recently purchased a JDS Labs Element 2 DAC/AMP. I'm primarily using it on my office desk with headphones, however I recently purchased the KEF LSX Wireless bookshelf speakers also for my office desk. These are powered speakers with a decent DAC built in. They don't have a USB input but do include a aux/3.5mm input and optical.

My JDS Labs Element 2 does include RCA to 3.5mm output on the back. I currently my MacBook Pro connected to the Element 2 via USB then the RCA to 3.5mm connected to the KEF speakers. I'm using the volume knob on the Element for the KEF speakers. Is this okay to do? I'm guessing I'm getting some benefit from the DAC, but not sure how a connected amp impacts powered speakers.

Should I just connect my KEF Speakers to the MacBook Pro directly via 3.5mm to 3.5mm headphone/aux cable?

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks!
 

JEarle

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Is your MBP the generation(s?) that has Toslink out in the headphone jack?
 

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stevesavanna

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Is your MBP the generation(s?) that has Toslink out in the headphone jack?

I have one of the new MacBook Pro M1 machines. It does have a headphone jack. Would that be better than going via USB to the DAC/AMP and then to the KEF LSX speakers via RCA to 3.5mm ?
 

quantum_wave

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Get a Topping D10s which will take USB in from you computer and run the optical out of the D10s to the LSX. This way you avoid having the signal converted to analog only to be reconverted to digital again which degrades the signal. The LSXs are DSP based so all analog signals in are re-digitized anyways. Best to just give the LSX a direct digital signal.

Plus then you have an extra coaxial digital out of the D10s you can route to another stack to drive headphones.
 

voodooless

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Why not just use what the speakers were build for? They are not called LSX Wireless for nothing. Just use airplay, ignore the external DAC, it won’t add anything.
 
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stevesavanna

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Get a Topping D10s which will take USB in from you computer and run the optical out of the D10s to the LSX. This way you avoid having the signal converted to analog only to be reconverted to digital again which degrades the signal. The LSXs are DSP based so all analog signals in are re-digitized anyways. Best to just give the LSX a direct digital signal.

Plus then you have an extra coaxial digital out of the D10s you can route to another stack to drive headphones.


Thanks. Very helpful. I do like the Element 2 as a good headphone DAC/AMP but if there's a better solution at the same quality that could better handle both the headphones and LSX speakers I'd definitely go that route. I just bought the Element 2 for $400 a little while back (just outside the return window).

The photo below is my current setup. Kind of limited on space, but could I technically have the Topping D10s in addition to the JDS Element 2, but solely for the KEF LSX? I guess just a USB output from the Mac to the Topping for the KEF LSX speakers and another to the Element 2 for headphones?

Thanks again
 

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stevesavanna

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Why not just use what the speakers were build for? They are not called LSX Wireless for nothing. Just use airplay, ignore the external DAC, it won’t add anything.

Didn't even think of using Airplay. No issue with signal degradation going that route right?
 
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stevesavanna

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I've been testing using the speakers connected to the Mac via Airplay. For the most part it's good, however I'm noticing some occasional popping/crackling. Any ideas for how to fix this? This is one of the reasons I normally opt for wired connections.
 

voodooless

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Does the popping and crackling always occur on the same spots in songs? So if you rewind a bit and play again you hear the same artifacts?
 
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stevesavanna

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The popping /crackling appears to be random. Doesn't reoccur in the same spots.

I'm thinking I'm going to go the route of a different DAC that includes USB in and optical out to the KEF LSX speakers. Looking at the Topping options - looks like Schitt also has some potential models that could work for this.

If I go with the Topping D10s would I be able to adjust the KEF LSX speaker volume through the MacBook or would I need to use the KEF remote since these are powered speakers? I saw the Topping E30 includes a volume remote also and it appears to a slightly better DAC.
 

Viperx100

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Thanks. Very helpful. I do like the Element 2 as a good headphone DAC/AMP but if there's a better solution at the same quality that could better handle both the headphones and LSX speakers I'd definitely go that route. I just bought the Element 2 for $400 a little while back (just outside the return window).

The photo below is my current setup. Kind of limited on space, but could I technically have the Topping D10s in addition to the JDS Element 2, but solely for the KEF LSX? I guess just a USB output from the Mac to the Topping for the KEF LSX speakers and another to the Element 2 for headphones?

Thanks again

Love your setup! Very clean. I have a MacBook Pro 16 and I just got the Kef LSX speakers and really like them. They sound good over Airplay but there's latency when it comes to watching videos (in VLC) and even YouTube as we all know. I was looking at your setup and I imagine that if I get the Schiit Mood 3+ I could have the same thing going with the MacBook Pro connected to Moda via USB and then Mode to LSX via RCA to 3.5mm, correct? I suppose I could also just get the Reiyin DA-03 https://www.amazon.com/Reiyin-Converter-Toslink-Optical-External/dp/B07VSFBT82 and just go straight from that to the 3.5mm on the LSX. Do you see any benefit from a complete DAC like the Element or Schiit over the Reiyin simpler converter? I am not thinking about saving money per se, but more in terms of sheer necessity since I want to use the LSX internals.

Thanks.
 

Hon

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I run a pair of LSXs with a 3rd gen Alexa via the 3.5mm cable. And I do use the subwoofer output. It's a small room (my wife thinks it's a cave), and the LSXs fill it nicely. I had a pair of DIY LS3/5s in the same location before that, and the LSXs (green cloth, golden speakers!) are definitely cuter.
 

roryoconnor

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Hi OP.

I have a pair of LSX in the sitting room. I have experimented with several external DACs into the analogue RCA input.

For the record, the worst sound I've heard from them, was broadcasting from the TV or smartphone via bluetooth utilizing the internal LSX DAC. It was stifled with a narrow soundstage and dull imaging. Ok for movies and gaming, but not for music

Not far from bluetooth in terms of quality was Airplay. Although to be fair unlike the music> bluetooth option, it was listenable. I occasionally use Airplay to broadcast from roon to the LSX and some Sonos Ones around the house. Airplay works well for background music I think.

I use roon from an Elac discovery server with its own internal DAC. The wired output from the Elac alternates between the 3.5 mm LSX input and optical input. This sounds very good with flac files or a Tidal stream. Both routes will utilize the internal LSX DAC although the analogue output from the Elac will sound the better of the two, when using a low noise power adaptor. The difference being the analogue out has engaged the Elac DAC along with the LSX DAC.

What I found surprisingly good was Spotify connect. Some very good presentation on the hifi subscription on certain tracks. Note this is a direct connection to the internet as opposed to bluetooth or Airplay.

I have also used the Topping E30 and a Hifime S2, which have both sounded very good - better than the LSX internal DAC in many instances. I realise that the analogue input is being re-digitized so not sure how that relates to using an external DAC. I do know that it can still sound very different depending on the choices you make upstream.

By far the best sound I have achieved was with a stream from a HiDef Soundcloud subscription > WiFI router > Google Chromecast audio > Chord Mojo ( on battery power supply ) > to the LSX 3.5 mm input.

The Chord Mojo really opened my ears to what these speakers are actually capable of, which you would never have imagined with the regular input options. It really is a different league and am already planning an upgrade to include an external Chord DAC. Possibly with a pair of LS50/ R3s.

( Note: I've tested all options along with a Kube 1 subwoofer to free up power to the LSX midrange/ top end . Room is reasonably lively, speakers 2M apart, listening distance is 2M. All impressions are subjective ).

Hope that helps.
 

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VintageFlanker

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All impressions are subjective
Not to mention: most likely irrelevant in that specific case, I'm sorry. (No offense, there!;))

Comparing DACs considering their outputs will end in the LSX ADC is non-sense.
realise that the analogue input is being re-digitized so not sure how that relates to using an external DAC.
That just does mean that swapping DACs is really pointless, for obvious reasons.
 
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roryoconnor

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Not to mention: most likely irrelevant in that specific case, I'm sorry. (No offense, there!;))

Comparing DACs considering their outputs will end in the LSX ADC is non-sense.

That just does mean that swapping DACs is really pointless, for obvious reasons.

No offense taken :)

Unless the sound signature of the external DAC is retained by the LSX ADC?

I know what you're getting at, but I also know what I'm hearing. It's been reported by other LSX users too.

We would need KEF designers to weigh in ...
 

voodooless

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Unless the sound signature of the external DAC is retained by the LSX ADC?

DAC’s beyond a certain spec don’t have a sound signature. They are fully transparent to the human ear.

but I also know what I'm hearing

No, you just think you know.

We would need KEF designers to weigh in ...

No we don’t.. just need a double blind test proving that you can actually tell them apart.
 

Hephaestus

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I'll send a message to KEF then..

Looking forward to being right about this ;)

KEF VP of Technology Jack Oclee-Brown is a member here...

Playing with DACs in front of your LSX is completely pointless from objective perspective.

If you want audible improvement I highly suggest that you improve positioning of your speakers / listening seat - it is free. (Photo of your system indicates extremely suboptimal positioning)
 

VintageFlanker

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I also know what I'm hearing
You don't. That's the all point of this forum!

It's when the differences are supposed to be minimal or inexistent that controlled (unsighted) listening is needed.

Sweeping DACs when the signal will be re-digitalized in the speakers makes no difference. Even more when DACs are already transparent to begin with. Only the output may change, and not in a good way.

Did you set your Mojo in DAC/fixed out mode? If so, Mojo outputs 3Vrms in such circumstances. That the only difference you would have heard. It has nothing to do with sound quality whatsoever.
 
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