Kef LS60 wireless review by ErinsAudioCorner

[Mnyb]

I always used the cable between my speakers and ethernet to the speakers

Shot in the dark here I assume when you moved from wifi to ethernet that you have to do the setup process again ?
Redo the pairing process as sugested in the manual ?

I think the manual is misleading regarding the white light when it says WiFi it sometimes means “network” . The author have simply assumed that everyone uses WiFi

And I would make sure that you are on the latest firmware 2.4

Then contact KEF and your dealer and keep that contact going until it’s resolved . Maybe it’s on warranty ? So you should have a new pair ?

Maybe @AOR knows what this means?

 

[GA16SE]

I second @Mnyb ‘s recommendation. Those LED indications might be misleading for colour blind persons.

 

[Mnyb]

The speakers have some peculiarities, they are present on my WiFi and Ethernet at the same time.

Try the network speed test ?

 

[Muddywaters]

Yes, I used to run them off wifi: I switched over to ethernet maybe 9 months ago, and the blinking problem started some months after that. One reason I switched away from wifi was because I also had the damn dropping speeds problem.

Any chance your wifi network changed around/after the time you switched over to running wired and the problem began? Changed password, changed network name SSID, different router, added extenders to the network. Just grasping at straws to see if there might be a trigger event.

Make sure the Ethernet cables are fully seated, correctly in the proper ports? (I think when I was setting mine back up in my room after our most recent hurricane event I had connected mine up in the wrong port order )

Maybe disconnect power cable (not just powered off via remote) for a few minutes, kind of “rebooting” the system?

Last resort; do a factory reset page 90 #1 of the manual. You’ll have to redo all settings, eq, prefs, set cable connected mode etc

Frustrating I’m sure

 

[Mnyb]

Any chance your wifi network changed around/after the time you switched over to running wired and the problem began? Changed password, changed network name SSID, different router, added extenders to the network. Just grasping at straws to see if there might be a trigger event.

Make sure the Ethernet cables are fully seated, correctly in the proper ports? (I think when I was setting mine back up in my room after our most recent hurricane event I had connected mine up in the wrong port order )

Maybe disconnect power cable (not just powered off via remote) for a few minutes, kind of “rebooting” the system?

Last resort; do a factory reset page 90 #1 of the manual. You’ll have to redo all settings, eq, prefs, set cable connected mode etc

Frustrating I’m sure

+1 Yes the cable ! is it properly seated and a proper cable no weird powerline adapters etc

 

[AOR]

Hi @Mnyb

Thanks for the @

@ClassicalSpeakers, I'll send you a PM. Let's get this sorted.

 

[kma100]

Hi @Mnyb

Thanks for the @

@ClassicalSpeakers, I'll send you a PM. Let's get this sorted.

Please share the outcome here for others as well. Thank you!

 

[ClassicalSpeakers]

@AOR appears to have solved the problem. He had me pull out the LAN cable, factory reset them, and then reconnect the LAN. Thanks AOR!

 

[AOR]

@AOR appears to have solved the problem. He had me pull out the LAN cable, factory reset them, and then reconnect the LAN. Thanks AOR!

Hi @ClassicalSpeakers

Glad to be of help!

 

[Mnyb]

I second @Mnyb ‘s recommendation. Those LED indications might be misleading for colour blind persons.

Yes colored LED is an horrific idea for an UI . (it could be worse one colored led with a blinking pattern only.. )

The OG squeezebox duet has it .

And Chord DAC's .

..all forgiven for the sound these speakers make

 

[GA16SE]

Yes colored LED is an horrific idea for an UI . (it could be worse one colored led with a blinking pattern only.. )

The OG squeezebox duet has it .

And Chord DAC's .

..all forgiven for the sound these speakers make

I wonder if those coloured LED indications could've been approached differently via the KEF Connect app?

 

[Mnyb]

I wonder if those coloured LED indications could've been approached differently via the KEF Connect app?

App could be better it has speed test that's good got 85 ish mb in my latest test .

But a bit sparse diagnostic .

Maybe the web-Ui could be developed to provide a log file or diagnostic packet the user could download and send to support

 

[AOR]

App could be better it has speed test that's good got 85 ish mb in my latest test .

But a bit sparse diagnostic .

Maybe the web-Ui could be developed to provide a log file or diagnostic packet the user could download and send to support

This functionality does already exist, but the log files are encrypted. When support is contacted through the app, you can send logs to our support teams. They have the ability to decrypt the logs and will be able to help with diagnostics.

 

[Mnyb]

This functionality does already exist, but the log files are encrypted. When support is contacted through the app, you can send logs to our support teams. They have the ability to decrypt the logs and will be able to help with diagnostics.

Cool did not know that , but you only find out when support is needed ... product just worked so I have not needed support.

Good info for old luddites like me . So the right path to support is to use the app , check not use my rotary phone to call my dealer ....

Some more tech info could be good for the user can it report it's own IP and whether it's on wifi or ethernet ? I'll go home and check my app.. ( replying from work ) edit: app gives you current ip , but that’s it .

Imho . such things as network config should be possible to change anytime without bother with a setup routine ?

 

[Muddywaters]

I’m curious if any development work is ongoing for the app? Such as adding additional functionality such delay and phase control for sub out integration and peq capability? @AOR

The gold standard reference for me is the responsiveness and updates for the WiiM products with their great updates.

 

[Mnyb]

I’m curious if any development work is ongoing for the app? Such as adding additional functionality such delay and phase control for sub out integration and peq capability? @AOR

The gold standard reference for me is the responsiveness and updates for the WiiM products with their great updates.

Yes I use my WiiM or ROON for PEQ duty , works for me but not if a friend want to use Spotify, I then have redirect them to cast to the WiiM so EQ can be applied . I have not even tried to explain to the family how all this works

There are great user friendly PEQ applications everywhere , so it’s a tried and tested approach in many products. And customers seems happy with them
The difference is that WiiM for example does not make the speakers and have no obligations regarding the speakers their products works fine regardless of what it outputs. KEF makes a self contained system that is a bit different imho.

If you let your pet Baboon use the WiiM app and you melt your speakers no one would look twice at the speaker mfg for the flustercluck .
If a self contained speaker system has built in settings with potential to destroy the product in 30 seconds, someone will do that.

To get around this I would suggest limiting the PEQ to 6 or 8 of them and a maximum frequency of 300hz and limit boost to +3dB .
That would automatically limit two caveats with RC . You should rarely adjust over the Schroeder frequency of your room and you can’t boost dips as these are usually cancellations so you just dump energy into them if you try.
A adjustable phase control for the sub might help here ( not only the 0 or 180 we already have ).
And your EQ would only apply to the more robust 4 bass drivers and it’s 500 watt amp . Leaving the more fragile midrange and treble alone.
Of course the tone controls already provided by KEF should still be there.

Sorry for the armchair engineering but hey folks coach football teams from their sofa too .

 

[Muddywaters]

point taken on baboons

Personally I’m more interested in sub integration aspects than peq. I use a RME ADI 2 Pro fsr BE so have peq available and so far haven’t used it. Will do so eventually. I do use WiiM Mini’s for home zones and feed the RME streaming. I also have a Dirac DLBC license to potentially play with. I’m really satisfied generally. The spread of soundstage and imaging are wonderful. I don’t feel any need to touch things above Schroeder at this point might try a little beyond maybe up 500 Hz.

I run a pair of HSU 15” sealed next to the LS 60’s and am toying with adding two more subs. I found I needed the subs to relieve the 60’s when I get aggressive with the loud pedal.

My room is a dedicated listening space, emergency guest room. Fairly heavily treated with a variety of GIK traps throughout but still needs low end help.

We are settling back into our home after suffering another hurricane surge in October. 2nd time in two years Haven’t remeasured things since getting things set back up.

 

[Mnyb]

point taken on baboons

Personally I’m more interested in sub integration aspects than peq. I use a RME ADI 2 Pro fsr BE so have peq available and so far haven’t used it. Will do so eventually. I do use WiiM Mini’s for home zones and feed the RME streaming. I also have a Dirac DLBC license to potentially play with. I’m really satisfied generally. The spread of soundstage and imaging are wonderful. I don’t feel any need to touch things above Schroeder at this point might try a little beyond maybe up 500 Hz.

I run a pair of HSU 15” sealed next to the LS 60’s and am toying with adding two more subs. I found I needed the subs to relieve the 60’s when I get aggressive with the loud pedal.

My room is a dedicated listening space, emergency guest room. Fairly heavily treated with a variety of GIK traps throughout but still needs low end help.

We are settling back into our home after suffering another hurricane surge in October. 2nd time in two years Haven’t remeasured things since getting things set back up.

View attachment 427305

I use peq for the sub integration in principle as room correction for bass and sub integration is more or less the same thing for me
Supose it works better with actual bass traps like you seem to have in the corners.

 

[Muddywaters]

The trapping helps somewhat but isn’t a panacea solving all woes. Would need much more depth of coverage to approach denting the low end. Unacceptably too much for me. The front wall and left side are cement block with wallboard. The right and back are regular framed with insulation and wallboard. I found I had to have the phase on one sub flipped 180 versus the other or the low bass dropped off precipitously from cancellation 30Hz down. Crazy difference.

I do have more coverage on the back wall but could unfortunately only have one back corner filled with the tri-traps due to the pocket door. The verticals on back have diffusion. The room is dry and I don’t want anymore damping of higher freq. That’s why I incorporated the slat-fusors at the first reflection point.

I did some measurements back before there was anything in there and a few as I moved back in a couple years ago and started adding the traps/diffusion and “stuff”. I may try cutting raw rockwool to fit the IKEA 5x5 shelves hidden behind the lp’s.

 

[AOR]

I’m curious if any development work is ongoing for the app? Such as adding additional functionality such delay and phase control for sub out integration and peq capability? @AOR

The gold standard reference for me is the responsiveness and updates for the WiiM products with their great updates.

Hi @Muddywaters

There is definitely ongoing work on the app, we have a dedicated team working on keeping it up-to-date, both with external software (streaming etc.) and hardware (new models of phone and new models of speakers).

As to the specific features you mentioned, we have considered adding them. It would require a fair amount of work on the DSP side, given the amount of extra memory large delays would take up. However it would be possible. The reason that we have not pursued these features is two-fold. (Well, one leads to the other)

1. Our wireless products, while being powerful in terms of customisation, must be approachable to as many of our users as possible. Our data tells us that of the people that on-board their LS Wireless speakers, only around 50% ever go into the EQ settings. Of those, most use the "basic" EQ mode, which asks questions about room, rather than giving access to the dB value parameters. Therefore, it's safe to assume then that of the people who use expert mode, only some of those would need more processing to get the sound they want. We have considered adding a super expert mode, like a "developer mode" on Windows and Android. This would be a hidden feature that wouldn't clutter the experience for the majority of users.

2. As a result of point 1, in the prioritisation of our app development, adding a secret mode that would be used by quite a small minority of users is, unfortunately, low down on the list. We are currently in the middle of a really aggressive development cycle, with products on the horizon containing features that are new to us (and the industry...). Therefore, this sort of feature is unlikely to see any movement soon.

It would be nice to see peq and more comprehensive sub controls added to KEF products, but ultimately we can't be everything to everyone - the trade-off between cleanliness of experience and ultimate flexibility must be set somewhere. I see parallels to this in all sorts of industries. eg. in computer OSs, the cleanest experience is to be had on an Apple product, but ground-up flexibility can only really be had using Linux.

This is probably not the answer you wanted, and I certainly can't guarantee that these features will be added. Never say never, though - we also see the value in it, and the fact that people ask makes it more likely to happen...