KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

[harkpabst]

If the level can be changed accidentally using the hardware remote it's still not a good solution, indeed.

Also setting an initial volume for individual inputs is not really that much of a useful feature. A simple on/off switch for volume bypass and a relative sensitivity setting per input would make more sense to me.

But again, this is all software. If users complain and ask for better solutions then KEF might well listen.

 

[Daka]

If the level can be changed accidentally using the hardware remote it's still not a good solution, indeed.

Also setting an initial volume for individual inputs is not really that much of a useful feature. A simple on/off switch for volume bypass and a relative sensitivity setting per input would make more sense to me.

But again, this is all software. If users complain and ask for better solutions then KEF might well listen.

Not perfect indeed. Volume is set though so every time to switch to that input it would reset - so not terrible either.
But I don’t see why KEF couldn’t just add a lock for volume/proper ht bypass that’s literally few lines of code.

 

[yummie]

If the level can be changed accidentally using the hardware remote it's still not a good solution, indeed.

Also setting an initial volume for individual inputs is not really that much of a useful feature. A simple on/off switch for volume bypass and a relative sensitivity setting per input would make more sense to me.

But again, this is all software. If users complain and ask for better solutions then KEF might well listen.

Why would you need the LS60's remote if you are using it in unity gain mode? Wouldn't you be using your AVR's remote and put the other one away?

 

[harkpabst]

Why would you need the LS60's remote if you are using it in unity gain mode? Wouldn't you be using your AVR's remote and put the other one away?

It's not uncommon that people integrate highest quality stereo setups with their AVRs. The AVR is just used for TV/Blu-ray then but all "serious" listening is done through the stereo system alone.

LS60 Wireless is a stereo system, not just an active speaker, and it's well possible (or even pretty likely) that using using the onboard electronics for 2-channel listening will yield better sound quality than hooking stuff up to the AVR, going though at least one, possibly more, additional DA/AD conversions before feeding it to the KEF's analog input.

With this use case in mind the physical remote still makes sense to many. It's a matter of priorities and what HT setup you're running, of course. When I bought my Lyngdorf TDAI I was surprised by how many other buyers are using it this exact way. Not me, my interest in the HT integration discussion is purely academic.

 

[Daka]

It's not uncommon that people integrate highest quality stereo setups with their AVRs. The AVR is just used for TV/Blu-ray then but all "serious" listening is done through the stereo system alone.

LS60 Wireless is a stereo system, not just an active speaker, and it's well possible (or even pretty likely) that using using the onboard electronics for 2-channel listening will yield better sound quality than hooking stuff up to the AVR, going though at least one, possibly more, additional DA/AD conversions before feeding it to the KEF's analog input.

With this use case in mind the physical remote still makes sense to many. It's a matter of priorities and what HT setup you're running, of course. When I bought my Lyngdorf TDAI I was surprised by how many other buyers are using it this exact way. Not me, my interest in the HT integration discussion is purely academic.

I think there is some misunderstanding here. Volume can be set for each input individually. That means if you set AUX to 71 for AVR connection you would use AVR remote when watching movies not KEF remote and when you wireless stream use KEF remote while your AVR is off.
Simply you can remember not to use KEF remote when playing from AVR.

 

[Vacceo]

It's not uncommon that people integrate highest quality stereo setups with their AVRs. The AVR is just used for TV/Blu-ray then but all "serious" listening is done through the stereo system alone.

LS60 Wireless is a stereo system, not just an active speaker, and it's well possible (or even pretty likely) that using using the onboard electronics for 2-channel listening will yield better sound quality than hooking stuff up to the AVR, going though at least one, possibly more, additional DA/AD conversions before feeding it to the KEF's analog input.

With this use case in mind the physical remote still makes sense to many. It's a matter of priorities and what HT setup you're running, of course. When I bought my Lyngdorf TDAI I was surprised by how many other buyers are using it this exact way. Not me, my interest in the HT integration discussion is purely academic.

My personal setup philosophy is that no multichannel system is possible without the foundation of a good main stereo.

The compound of your electronics, room and speaker should not care about what you play: games, films or records should all sound equally good.

 

[KMO]

I think there is some misunderstanding here. Volume can be set for each input individually. That means if you set AUX to 71 for AVR connection you would use AVR remote when watching movies not KEF remote and when you wireless stream use KEF remote while your AVR is off.
Simply you can remember not to use KEF remote when playing from AVR.

Yes, but the source selection is on a 4-way rocker on the KEF remote.

The same 4-way rocker as the volume control.

The chance of you accidentally nudging the volume for the aux input while trying to switch source away from it is relatively high, I would say.

(And the chance of some other user messing with the volume is even higher)

 

[Music1969]

From my digitization

Hi, how did you digitise the plots from KEF whitepaper?

I've been looking for a way to digitise plot images myself but never found.

 

[harkpabst]

Simply you can remember not to use KEF remote when playing from AVR.

Sure you can, but that's not the claimed set-it-and-forget-it solution. It's a set-it-and-remember-to-check-frequently solution. LS60 Wireless explicitly intends to deliver highest level sound quality and highest user friendliness and least obtrusive looks, so I wouldn't call it a misunderstanding.

Changing the volume accidentally is only one aspect, though. Remember those blessed with one (or more) spouses and one (or more) kids . Good luck instructing them to always use the right remote for volume control, not the wrong one again! I told you like a thousand times!

It works. It's not as bad as I assumed initially. But it's certainly not perfect.

The compound of your electronics, room and speaker should not care about what you play: games, films or records should all sound equally good.

Absolutely. That's how it should be in an ideal world. I just report what I see being done all the time, I don't even judge if it's smart or necessary or not. The shear number of cases just tells me that quite a number of listeners do see an advantage in integrating dedicated 2-channel gear with their HT stuff. Also the number of people running separate dedicated HT and stereo systems keeps surprising me even if I fully understand their motivation. Also, not everybody buys or updates their entire entertainment setup in one go. Updating to e.g. better fronts isn't all that uncommon.

If you would want to take advantage of stuff like phase correction (and if so then why not for all speakers?) you really need a HT processor with (digital) outputs for each channel and a matching number of active (DSP controlled) speakers. Devices like this are in existence but in my experience they tend to be costly.

But again, I really just want to hint towards the not so small group of users doing it the way I described.

 

[Daka]

New review: https://www.wired.com/review/review-kef-ls60-wireless/

 

[Daka]

Sure you can, but that's not the claimed set-it-and-forget-it solution. It's a set-it-and-remember-to-check-frequently solution. LS60 Wireless explicitly intends to deliver highest level sound quality and highest user friendliness and least obtrusive looks, so I wouldn't call it a misunderstanding.

Changing the volume accidentally is only one aspect, though. Remember those blessed with one (or more) spouses and one (or more) kids . Good luck instructing them to always use the right remote for volume control, not the wrong one again! I told you like a thousand times!

It works. It's not as bad as I assumed initially. But it's certainly not perfect.

Do kids stream music on your hardware? If not then hide it away from them and problem solved
If they do they are grown up enough to understand the difference

 

[Powerbench]

Now, let us imagine a bookshelf LS60 - slightly bigger box than ls50 with a single kc62 driver on each side... If for no other reason, then to beat Kii...

Arnold was never the same after that…

 

[Daka]

Yes, but the source selection is on a 4-way rocker on the KEF remote.

The same 4-way rocker as the volume control.

The chance of you accidentally nudging the volume for the aux input while trying to switch source away from it is relatively high, I would say.

(And the chance of some other user messing with the volume is even higher)

Tbh two use cases I can see for myself
- when watching movie I use ATV remote everything turns on - no need for KEF source change here as it can be on auto detect.
- when listening to music I use phone to select music on roon (or any other app) again not touching remote even for volume control
Hence I personally wouldn’t think there is a need for one - except on rare occasions to turn volume down quickly when listening to music but my understanding is that shouldn’t be a problem in that case

 

[harkpabst]

Do kids stream music on your hardware? If not then hide it away from them and problem solved
If they do they are grown up enough to understand the difference

Come on, don't be silly ...

 

[Trouble Maker]

So, why wasn't KEF LS50W1 updated for what is essentially a HT bypass? Unless I missed some firmware and app updates, which is possible, maybe this is what someone earlier in the thread meant about LS50W1 owners feeling left behind.

 

[KMO]

So, why wasn't KEF LS50W1 updated for what is essentially a HT bypass?

That "essentially" is a stretch. The only real feature is per-source volume memory. Does the LS50 Wireless not have that?

The real question is "why have they stopped updating the LS50 Wireless totally, with no support in current apps?" That sort of rapid support dropping doesn't inspire confidence for buyers of the current range.

 

[Trouble Maker]

The only real feature is per-source volume memory. Does the LS50 Wireless not have that?

I'm not sure, I basically just use (Spotify) streaming built in and that's it.
For the LS50W1 there's nothing I can find for wake on (RCA) input setting in the app, which is the other critical piece. So even if it kept volume per source, you'd still have to manually change the inputs.

That "essentially" is a stretch.

IMHO not so much of a stretch, the only thing it doesn't (seem to) do is lock the volume setting per input. But someone should confirm actual situation on LS50W2.

I'd be ecstatic if the LS50W1 was updated to wake on selectable input and had independent settings per input. It would do everything I need to integrate into a home theater. The fact that LS50W2 and LS60 seems to have this and they just ignored LS50W1 users is salt in the wound.

 

[KMO]

There's nothing I can find for wake on (RCA) input setting in the app, which is the other critical piece.

Ah, good point. I'd forgotten that very important feature.

That's unlikely to be the sort of thing addable via a software update though. You usually need some real hardware to actually do the detection of signal while in a low-power standby state. (Or you end up with your "standby" not really being low power).

 

[Trouble Maker]

This is inspiring me to revisit the RPi/Arduino idea to enable the LS50W1 to integrate into a home theater. I'll put it on my project list down at project #72 to be done.

 

[nothingman]

It would indeed be awfully Applesque of KEF if they didn’t provide a basic HT passthrough setting via the app. We’re really just talking about the option of setting a volume lock on one of the inputs here. It’s all down to software at that point and the sort of thing they could implement if they wanted. People can make excuses about just not touching the remote all the want — HT passthrough is a very basic thing with clear parameters. Drives me crazy miniDSP won’t implement one for the SHD either, despite people asking them for years to do so.