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KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

sifi36

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The bass extension is so deep that the LFX is <20Hz, only other speaker I have done that also did that was the D&D 8C.

Here's the Spinorama in my typical format (note graph only goes down to 30Hz as usual, for formatting):
View attachment 206206

Thank you for that, out of curiosity, what is the score without sub?
 

thewas

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Looking at their site page, i've read the whitepaper and a thought lingers in my mind - My God they're great.
KEF is really on a run in the last years, every series comes with some impressive engineering which is nicely documented for us "geeks" in their white papers.
 

Daka

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Looking at their site page, i've read the whitepaper and a thought lingers in my mind - My God they're great.
I must take back my words, saying they are stuck in limbo between great products for the money and slightly better but enormously more expensive. This one if it matches their white paper can be first KEF speaker for 6k that actually has got a good maybe even great value
 

Zvu

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I must take back my words, saying they are stuck in limbo between great products for the money and slightly better but enormously more expensive. This one if it matches their white paper can be first KEF speaker for 6k that actually has got a good maybe even great value

I'm so poor that the only Kef loudspeakers i could (barely) afford is R3 so i never look at price tag of Kef loudspeakers - So you see, it's easy for me :) to disregard the "value" parameter.

I understand that there are people making a lot of money and it's not a problem for them.

What turns me on is engineering in every Kef loudspeaker.
 

bloodshoteyed

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ok, i never was enough into Kef to know all their models, but....how's the outlook for a passive version of those?
 

thewas

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ok, i never was enough into Kef to know all their models, but....how's the outlook for a passive version of those?
For the exact same model I see the chances very low mainly due to the special EQ and limiters for using those 4 woofers in that small not ported enclosure.
 

sifi36

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See where I mentioned the LFX score, the bass extends so deep that the formula needs to look below 20Hz and it breaks down.
I see, I’m not well-versed in how the score is calculated, hence the ignorance of my question. Thank you anyway.
 

abdo123

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For the exact same model I see them very low mainly due to the special EQ and limiters for using those 4 woofers in that small not ported enclosure.
I'm not following why a 'small' non-ported enclosure is an issue. for me it's rather the opposite.
 

ManuCV

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Feels a bit bittersweet when I just bought a couple of Reference 1's... however cheaper than what these are going for. But anyway, they look really promising.
 

thewas

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I'm not following why a 'small' non-ported enclosure is an issue. for me it's rather the opposite.
Because loudspeakers in too small enclosures need heavy equalizing to get low linearly and which also limits their max SPL so also intelligent limiters are recommendable.

Let me quote from the white paper:

The LS60 Wireless relies on DSP equalisation to extend the low frequency response. There are no ports and all sound is produced by driver movement. The internal air volume in the LF chamber is approximately 12.5 Litres. The peak volume displacement produced by the four LF driver cones is around 0.28 Litres. This means that, when the drivers are visibly moving, the cabinet volume is significantly modulated. Unchecked, this would lead to significant bass distortion that would degrade the sound quality.

......

With conventional loudspeakers, the bass extension is determined by the driver and enclosure design. The LS60 Wireless takes a different approach and relies on high volume displacement drivers, high power and DSP equalisation to extend the low frequency response. Provided there is both linear driver excursion and amplifier power available the bass extension can be extended as far as the user requires. When “Extra” bass extension mode is selected, the LF section has a frequency range extending down to 26 Hz at normal to high listening levels. When higher music listening levels are required, an algorithm activates in the DSP and dynamically controls the output to keep the LF drivers safe from mechanical damage and distortion. There has been extensive research done in this project to ensure this transition is smooth when listening to music, so as not to detract from the listener’s enjoyment.
 

maverickronin

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No balanced input. At least there's an optical input to break ground loops.

No mention of latency.
 

abdo123

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Because loudspeakers in too small enclosures need heavy equalizing to get low linearly and which also limits their max SPL so also intelligent limiters are recommendable.
That's fine and all but that's not really a reason that makes the design impossible.
 

tifune

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Q on these: I'm sure many of you have seen attached graphic, but attaching anyway to level set. One advantage of the point source design is summation distance shrinks dramatically (%). In a 20ish-20 floorstander like this, about how much would the minimum listening distance need to increase for proper summation? I believe 8361A is about 65cm minimum.

I fully realize nearfield is not the intended use case, this is moreso for my own education.
 

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LearningToSmile

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This gives a good idea of their actual size - interesting that concentric is mounted so low, looks like it would be well below ear level even seated. With how small they are I wonder if people will end up using them not as floor standers, but sitting on the TV console instead.
 

thewas

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That's fine and all but that's not really a reason that makes the design impossible.
Almost anything is possible but that does not make it automatically expedient, in passive loudspeakers you cannot really make a positive sign EQ* so you would need to shelve heavily down all the rest of the spectrum (probably to less then 75 dB/W/M), also not really expedient to implement an intelligent/adaptive limiter on purely passive high power domain without its own power supply.
All those issues are some of the reasons why nowadays almost all subwoofers are active.

*In come cases you can gain a couple of dBs in the bass by phase rotation and resonance which has implemented in the past in some loudspeakers.
 

tifune

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No mention of latency.

FWIW, Stereophiles review of the LSX matched Kefs manual regarding buffer time in wireless mode. I confirmed latency basically evaporated in wired mode; it's reasonable to expect similar here although I'd hope wireless latency to have decreased at least a little given advancements since that time.

Edit: I downloaded the LS60 manual to check for any mention, the PDF only goes to pg 43 but the ToC extends to the 90s. I guess it's not fully baked yet? Or I'm hitting some old cache/CDN, maybe
 
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