KEF LS50W II's & two Rythmik L12's....now what?

[hunchojacques]

Greetings all....in the process of setting up KEF LS50W II's and two Rythmik L12 subs in my den. Carpeted room, square shape, 14X14. I've read so much in terms of opinions, set-up ideas, recommendations....that in all honesty, I'm actually more confused than I thought I was when I began this project.

So....from a question standpoint, I'm trying to get a grasp on settings for speakers vs. subs:

- Do I need a specific type of miniDSP or a Speaker Anti-Mode to get things set-up 'appropriately'?

- Any ideas on high and low pass frequencies on the LS50W II app settings?

- Any suggestions for Wall mode/Treble trim/Sub gain on KEF Connect?

- Should I use LFE on the Rythmik's vs. the L/R lines? My understanding is that I apply a crossover filter via the subwoofer signal path using the KEF Connect app, and the L/R's would create multiple crossover filters.

- PEQ Gain (On/Off & Settings), Bandwidth, Frequency, Delay/Phase, Crossover, LPF Slope, Bass Extension.....admittedly, zero understanding if I should mess with these on the back of the Rythmik subs, and how they interface with speaker settings.

I apologize in advance for some of these questions that I'm sure seem rudimentary to those in the know.....but figured this was the best place to ask. Any guidance is sincerely and greatly appreciated.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Audiolense Digital Loudspeaker and Room Correction Software Walkthrough

In this article, I walk through the steps of using Audiolense 5.0 (AL5) to biamp my loudspeakers using a linear phase digital crossover. Followed by frequency and time domain correction, so the frequency response is tonally neutral and the direct sound is arriving at my ears all at the same time....

audiophilestyle.com

An article on combining those two and with highly accurate and positive results. You probably don't want to exactly duplicate what is done here, but it has useful info. Plus some binaural recordings of various implementations. Plus mitcho is a member here, and might give you some tips additional tips if you asked.

 

[hardisj]

I reviewed the LS50 WII. I really, really like that speaker. However, the one thing you really need to be aware of is the limiter. It severely chops off the bass as volume is increased.

Thing is, I don't know if it does this to the subwoofer-out signal or not. I'd hope it doesn't. In which case, use this graphic as a guide to help you understand where to place the crossover point. In short, the higher you can get away with, the better.

I talk about this around the 17:28 mark of my video review below so you might want to watch it to see what I mean if you don't quite follow the above graphic.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

If you can afford it the miniDSP SHD Studio should be the perfect interface for you. It has electronic crossover for the high/low pass to the subs, 10 band parametric eq for each channel, and Dirac Live for better Room Correction than Kef provides.

As for crossover point, since you have two L12s, I would see if you could push the crossover to 150 hz which would get you past a lot of the distortion the midrange puts out in the midbass. Only problem is the L12s tend to roll off pretty hard above 100 hz, so it may be pushing it on that front. I know one member who has LS 50s and L12s who believes 100 hz is about as far as he can push the crossover, but your mileage may vary.

FYI, the SVS Sb 2000s are flat from around 25 hz to 140 hz, so if you really wanted to go through the trouble of a trade in...,.

 

[richard12511]

If you can afford it the miniDSP SHD Studio should be the perfect interface for you. It has electronic crossover for the high/low pass to the subs, 10 band parametric eq for each channel, and Dirac Live for better Room Correction than Kef provides.

As for crossover point, since you have two L12s, I would see if you could push the crossover to 150 hz which would get you past a lot of the distortion the midrange puts out in the midbass. Only problem is the L12s tend to roll off pretty hard above 100 hz, so it may be pushing it on that front. I know one member who has LS 50s and L12s who believes 100 hz is about as far as he can push the crossover, but your mileage may vary.

FYI, the SVS Sb 2000s are flat from around 25 hz to 140 hz, so if you really wanted to go through the trouble of a trade in...,.

On that front, Rythmik FM8's are probably one of the best stereo sub matches out there at any price for the LS50. Genelec W371A would probably be best, but way too expensive.

 

[thmeky]

I reviewed the LS50 WII. I really, really like that speaker. However, the one thing you really need to be aware of is the limiter. It severely chops off the bass as volume is increased.

Thing is, I don't know if it does this to the subwoofer-out signal or not. I'd hope it doesn't. In which case, use this graphic as a guide to help you understand where to place the crossover point. In short, the higher you can get away with, the better.

I talk about this around the 17:28 mark of my video review below so you might want to watch it to see what I mean if you don't quite follow the above graphic.

Hi Erin, thanks for thorough and informative review! I am in the position of a set of Kef LS50 WII's and a single KEF KC62 subwoofer. The subwoofer is directly attached to the main speaker and the HP is set to 120hz, which is the highest the build-in KEF software allows me to. The subwoofer is positioned directly in the middle of the speakers (both vertically and horizontally), as everything is set on top of a wide solid oak (100 KG) dresser with IsoAcoustics Aperta and ISO-puck isolators. Localization of 80-120 Hz bass tones shouldn't be much of an issue, as they are perfectly aligned with what you should expect from a centred stereo image.

I ordered a MiniDSP UMIK-1 (with tripod), which will be connected to a PC. The PC will be connected to Topping D10s DAC, used as USB-SPDIF bridge in this case, which will be connected to the coaxial input of the main speaker, in order to optimize the crossover (LP and subwoofer gain) through measurements with REW and to check if the system could benefit from a different placement, room treatment, parametric EQ and/or Dirac.

If you'd like, I could run some Response Linearity measurements at different SPL's and even different crossover frequencies to check the LS50WII limiters influence on my system?
I could measure a single speaker at 1m with different HP frequencies without the subwoofer and also my 2.1 system as a whole where the mic is mimicking a listing position in a equilateral triangle.
Altough I have a degree in EE, I don't have experience with audio measurements aside from some uni projects from a long time ago, so maybe you could give me some tips to get started? For example, which software did you use? Thanks in advance!

 

[Ron Texas]

I have original LS50's and 2 Rythmik L12's. In my room 100hz is the minimum good crossover for the subs. Go below 100hz and mid/woofer excursions are too large. Using 120 hz right now. In the past I tried as high as 165 hz but as the crossover goes past 120 hz bass loses detail or attack as some call it.

 

[hunchojacques]

I have original LS50's and 2 Rythmik L12's. In my room 100hz is the minimum good crossover for the subs. Go below 100hz and mid/woofer excursions are too large. Using 120 hz right now. In the past I tried as high as 165 hz but as the crossover goes past 120 hz bass loses detail or attack as some call it.

What is your high-pass and low-pass setting at the moment? I have the basic 70/50 with two subs via the KEF Connect app. Any guidance here?

 

[aarons915]

What is your high-pass and low-pass setting at the moment? I have the basic 70/50 with two subs via the KEF Connect app. Any guidance here?

I believe Ron uses 4th order slopes, I'm not 100% sure on the W2 but I believe you get the typical 4th order low pass on the sub and a 2nd order high pass on the mains. With that in mind I would say your settings are too low unless you don't listen loud at all, like less than 85db at the listening position. I think 100Hz 2nd order is a pretty good setting for most people and since you can pick a different low pass for your sub, I would do 80Hz. If you have REW and can measure the response of your mains alone and mains + subs, another crossover point might look better but the above recommendation is simply to reduce cone excursions and allow the W2 to play louder with low distortion.

 

[hunchojacques]

I'll give 100 HP/80/LP a go and see how it sounds to me. Some of the KEF Connect settings are confusing to me, admittedly. Sub gain, phase correction, bass extension, treble trim...any particular take you have on these? Thanks for responding previously, as well.

 

[Ron Texas]

What is your high-pass and low-pass setting at the moment? I have the basic 70/50 with two subs via the KEF Connect app. Any guidance here?

High pass is 100 hz on a Crown 1502 xls. Low pass is measured at just over 100 hz in room. Calibration on the back of the sub are useless. Most are. Both are 4th order. Remember, rooms can mess with things.