KEF LS50 Meta vs KEF R3

[harkpabst]

Hello! I received a great deal on these speakers ($700), but they're still returnable. I currently own 4 LS50s (non meta).

Does this tweeter damage look like it'll impact the sound quality? How should I test? I've listened for a little while and they sound good. I'll probably run them with the grills on.
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That's not damage to the tweeter (at least not visibly) but to the midrange.

What speaker is it anyway? R3 or R3 Meta?

Even if they sound OK initially this kind of damage is affecting performance, no question. From my point of view the price would only make them a bargain if a) those are Metas and b) you can get a replacement driver fitted at a price that sums up with the selling price way below RSP.

 

[abdo123]

R3 is noticeably better. That coax design they use doesn't do so hot without a woofer.
LS50 at 86 and 96 dB %THD (0.5% is -50dB; 1% is -40dB; 3% is -30dB)

Vs Erin's measurements of the R3 (from www.erinsaudiocorner.com )

Notice that the R3s deal with higher levels better, especially at low frequencies - the LS50 falls apart around 100hz, where the R3 is fine down to about 60hz.

If you look at 3rd harmonic they’re very similar in performance.

 

[fineMen]

The LS50 is a mascotte. The popularity may discourage the development team. Looks over performance? Further input needed?

 

[Sound23]

That's not damage to the tweeter (at least not visibally) but to the midrange.

What speaker is it anyway? R3 or R3 Meta?

Even if they sound OK initially this kind of damage is affecting performance, no question. From my point of view the price would only make them a bargain if a) those are Metas and b) you can get a replacement driver fitted at a price that sums up with the selling price way below RSP.

Non meta r3.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hello! I received a great deal on these speakers ($700), but they're still returnable. I currently own 4 LS50s (non meta).

Does this tweeter damage look like it'll impact the sound quality? How should I test? I've listened for a little while and they sound good. I'll probably run them with the grills on.
View attachment 282150View attachment 282151

I wouldn’t keep a speaker with damage. Never. Return them. You never know what else is damaged unless you have measurement equipment and know what you are doing.

 

[Sound23]

Bummer. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Alexx]

@Sound23:
It looks like a simple "hit" on the cone of the middle finger.

I don't think it distorts the sound so much indeed.

It would be important to understand if with the blow received it was decentralized from the section where the cone moves on the walls of the magnet, try to gently push the cone of the middle finger all the way with 3 fingers and try to feel if it rubs somewhere, if not feel nothing it's not serious.

You could also disassemble the block of the middle finger and see if slowly with your fingers pushing from behind you can bring it forward so it also solves the aesthetic factor.

The price at which you got them is good, considering the very small differences with the new "Meta" series, you could also keep them.
Let us know, greetings.

 

[harkpabst]

I disagree. The structural regidity of this cone has suffered and will suffer even more if you try bending it back. Even if the voice coil doesn't rub (yet) performance will not be as intended. With Uni-Q drivers the midrange cone also serves as a waveguide for the tweeter. I would not keep this speaker.

 

[thewas]

If you have a compute and microphone you could a simple REW sweep measurement at a not too low SPL at the exact location of both loudspeakers and see how the damaged one differs at the frequency response and distorion compared to the undamaged one.

 

[Sound23]

If you have a compute and microphone you could a simple REW sweep measurement at a not too low SPL at the exact location of both loudspeakers and see how the damaged one differs at the frequency response and distorion compared to the undamaged one.

Is there a phone app that would work? Or could I use a phone as the microphone?

 

[Alexx]

I don't know if a simple smartphone microphone can do it, it seems too basic to me.

The only downside to that cone is that I "think" it's coated in aluminum, and that would make it difficult to try and reseat it correctly.

The suspension in the photo seems almost intact (a very small crease) but it is difficult to exclude or confirm any anomalies in the sound performance.

The only inconvenience you could encounter would be for a future sale where every buyer would have to object to that medium.

Can't the person who sold them to you tell you how to solve or prove if it's perfect?
See you soon.

 

[Sound23]

Can the R3 be used upside down so that the tweeter is closer to ear level?

I'm thinking about using them as 5.1 surrounds in that way.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Can the R3 be used upside down so that the tweeter is closer to ear level?

I'm thinking about using them as 5.1 surrounds in that way.

Yes. No problem.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Hello! I received a great deal on these speakers ($700), but they're still returnable. I currently own 4 LS50s (non meta).

Does this tweeter damage look like it'll impact the sound quality? How should I test? I've listened for a little while and they sound good. I'll probably run them with the grills on.
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I hope you returned them (BestBuy??)
That is terrible damage to the most important driver.
That needs a replacement uniq driver or you really don't have what you really want in a $2k speaker, even for $700.
Do not keep them.

I have measured damaged drivers of other types. They always have reduced performance especially much higher levels distortion components.

 

[Alexx]

I totally agree.

There are still some good opportunities for new R3s packed without damage.
Look for other R3s if you can.

 

[ZRMN995]

Hello, new guy here.
After reading quite a good chunk of this topic, I was left a bit confused.
I'm moving into new house and want to treat myself with good audio system and I'm unsure whether to land on R3's (1800€), R3 meta's (2200€), R5's (2500€), LS50W II (2800€) or stretch a bit and get LS60W (5500€) (numbers in brackets are current prices at my local dealer)

Unfortunate thing is that I can't treat my living room as it should be treated so I'm really confused what's the best option here, especially considering a lot of glass in my room..I plan to add some carpets, maybe some acoustic panels in form of painting on the side walls but not much else...
I've attached floor plan of my room, floors are wooden, room is about 7x6x2,5m, seating position is 2-3m from the speakers which should be placed on marked positions, X.

Any help, any advice is more than welcome.
Oh, about the music choice; I really listen everything from jazz to rap, rock to classical music, if it matters..

 

[JRiggs]

R3 with a pair of subs.

 

[Tokyo_John]

Hello, new guy here.
After reading quite a good chunk of this topic, I was left a bit confused.
I'm moving into new house and want to treat myself with good audio system and I'm unsure whether to land on R3's (1800€), R3 meta's (2200€), R5's (2500€), LS50W II (2800€) or stretch a bit and get LS60W (5500€) (numbers in brackets are current prices at my local dealer)

Unfortunate thing is that I can't treat my living room as it should be treated so I'm really confused what's the best option here, especially considering a lot of glass in my room..I plan to add some carpets, maybe some acoustic panels in form of painting on the side walls but not much else...
I've attached floor plan of my room, floors are wooden, room is about 7x6x2,5m, seating position is 2-3m from the speakers which should be placed on marked positions, X.

Any help, any advice is more than welcome.
Oh, about the music choice; I really listen everything from jazz to rap, rock to classical music, if it matters..

A solid DSP running something like Dirac Live with careful calibration will do miracles with a non-optimal room, and provide a seamless cross-over as well if you decide to go with a subwoofer(s) (highly recommended, it allows the main speakers to focus on what they're good at). I personally went with a pair of LS50 Meta, KC-62, hypex amp, and minidsp shd running Dirac Live...all of which you can probably buy for less cost than a pair of LS60W alone. I find that the room correction has a far greater influence than choice of speakers and other gear. I personally wouldn't buy any pair of speakers over 3000 EUR for a room that hasn't been carefully designed/treated.

 

[bodhi]

Hello, new guy here.
After reading quite a good chunk of this topic, I was left a bit confused.
I'm moving into new house and want to treat myself with good audio system and I'm unsure whether to land on R3's (1800€), R3 meta's (2200€), R5's (2500€), LS50W II (2800€) or stretch a bit and get LS60W (5500€) (numbers in brackets are current prices at my local dealer)

Unfortunate thing is that I can't treat my living room as it should be treated so I'm really confused what's the best option here, especially considering a lot of glass in my room..I plan to add some carpets, maybe some acoustic panels in form of painting on the side walls but not much else...
I've attached floor plan of my room, floors are wooden, room is about 7x6x2,5m, seating position is 2-3m from the speakers which should be placed on marked positions, X.

Any help, any advice is more than welcome.
Oh, about the music choice; I really listen everything from jazz to rap, rock to classical music, if it matters..

From performance and measurement perspective R3 Meta with couple subs and AV amp with Dirac/Audyssey.

For music only use I think I myself would strongly consider LS60Ws. Two speakers, two cables and done.

You have to ask yourself if you are interested in optimizing sound reproduction performance for it's own sake or is "very good" performance enough for you.

 

[harkpabst]

R3 with a pair of subs.

Not a bad choice, for sure. But if you're already prepared to invest into speakers and stereo subs and a matching bass management (and possibly room correction) solution, then a pair of LS50 Meta can be rather better and cheaper.

... unsure whether to land on R3's (1800€), R3 meta's (2200€), R5's (2500€), LS50W II (2800€) or stretch a bit and get LS60W ...

So, what else is going to make up your system? You really cannot compare the passive speaker range (R3, R3 Meta, R5, R5 Meta and in particular LS50 Meta, I have to add) with the active music systems (LS50 Wireless II and LS60 Wireless) unless you take into account amplification and streaming options for the passive speakers.

Since you worry about the in-room performance and considering the fact that KEF's wireless range of speakers does not offer any room correction (yet) I second the recommendation of some amplifier system providing room correction. This really doesn't have to be an AV amp if you are not into multi-channel audio. A number of high-quality stereo amps do offer room correction and bass management for perfect sub integration. First on my personal list would be Lyngdorf totally digital amplifiers.