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KEF LS50 Meta Spinorama and Measurements

killdozzer

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Thank you thewas, very much! Useful point of view; cheaper, as good sounding, risk of defects on the part of WII and software expiring, all very good.

I'm curious though, why do you say if I plan to do room correction? Are WII harder to smooth out?
 

thewas

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You are welcome, the WII are not harder at all to smooth out, I just meant that for room correction on a high level you would need anyway an external EQ/DRC as the one included in the active ones is quite basic.
 

goldenears

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What are your general feelings on whether the Wireless II is worth the money?

Personally I would never buy an active Kef product as there's so many comments in audio forums from people who have had failing ones/warranty issues.

From X300A to LS50W, etc, etc they all seem to be unreliable. Apparently the LS50W app is pretty unreliable too, which doesn't bode well for the future. Can't find the link now but I was reading someone's complaints about it the other day.

But yeah, it is attractive to have all that stuff in a nice neat small package.
 
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killdozzer

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You are welcome, the WII are not harder at all to smooth out, I just meant that for room correction on a high level you would need anyway an external EQ/DRC as the one included in the active ones is quite basic.
Good point. And a huge money-saver! In that case I could even go for a sub with no DSP.

Personally I would never buy an active Kef product as there's so many comments in audio forums from people who have had failing ones/warranty issues.

From X300A to LS50W, etc, etc they all seem to be unreliable. Apparently the LS50W app is pretty unreliable too, which doesn't bode well for the future. Can't find the link now but I was reading someone's complaints about it the other day.

But yeah, it is attractive to have all that stuff in a nice neat small package.
Haven't heard about that. I'll look into it.
 

goldenears

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Yeah, it's hard to tell how common it is or compare to other manufacturers just from internet comments, but anecdotally I've seen more comments about Kef active stuff failing than anything else. But I'm also reading the Kef threads more than others so who knows :rolleyes:

I like the idea of separates myself for flexibility, tinkering and future-proofing, but I do see the advantage of having everything in a nice neat small package. I'd just be so annoyed if the electronics failed 5 years down the track on an expensive speaker like the LS50W.
 

MZKM

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Here's mine:

index.php

(Please note that some of the bumps from 400-800Hz are likely due to my new outdoor measurement rig, which I am still trying to refine.)
Is your graph at 2.83V? If so, sensitivity is much lower than the KEF Spin (Stereophile measured sensitivity close to 85dB).
 
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napilopez

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Is your graph at 2.83V? If so, sensitivity is much lower than the KEF Spin (Stereophile measured sensitivity close to 85dB).

Oh I don't check for sensitivity. I just test at whatever volume loud enough to be useful without annoying the neighbors. Most of my old apartment measurements were at a whopping 75dB for instance lol. These days it depends on how windy it happens to be. But I suppose I might as well measure at 2.83V now that I can measure outdoors
 

MZKM

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Oh I don't check for sensitivity. I just test at whatever volume loud enough to be useful without annoying the neighbors. Most of my old apartment measurements were at a whopping 75dB for instance lol. These days it depends on how windy it happens to be. But I suppose I might as well measure at 2.83V now that I can measure outdoors
Ok, just checking.

Having it offset to some SPL if not doing 2.83V would avoid confusion, like how I do for active speakers (I wish Klippel would support this), I offset it to the calculated sensitivty (300Hz-3kHz), here is the Neumi BS5P Erin just measured:
Spinorama 35.png



But if going to go with 2.83V, then that’s even better.
 

CJH

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Really enjoying my LS50 Metas. I am EQing using the autoEQ 20 filter PEQs from Pierre's website and find it indispensable. They are sitting on a pair of GR servo subs crossed over at 80Hz. Would love to hear a pair of R7s crossed over at 50Hz. That would be exceptional.
CJH
 

vkvedam

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Been with the LS50s for 7 plus years now, still love them.
 

Ata

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Really enjoying my LS50 Metas. I am EQing using the autoEQ 20 filter PEQs from Pierre's website and find it indispensable. They are sitting on a pair of GR servo subs crossed over at 80Hz. Would love to hear a pair of R7s crossed over at 50Hz. That would be exceptional.
CJH

I am thinking of a similar setup, but with SVS 1000 Pros. What is the effect of EQing? Have you tried Maiky's EQ Score option from this thread?
 

CJH

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I am thinking of a similar setup, but with SVS 1000 Pros. What is the effect of EQing? Have you tried Maiky's EQ Score option from this thread?

Yes, I used Maikey's for a couple months and it's a big step up from stock (thank you Maiky). The autoEQ is a refinement over Makey's and takes the LS50 Meta up another notch.

At the risk of being tarred'n'feathered and run out of town--when playing with these PEQs I can hear very, very small changes in PEQ gain--as low as +/- .005dB :oops: in the 2-4 kHz region. Might be good topic for discussion since this is finer than measurements reveal.
Anonymous Today (CJH)
 
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phoenixdogfan

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I am thinking of a similar setup, but with SVS 1000 Pros. What is the effect of EQing? Have you tried Maiky's EQ Score option from this thread?
I use Maiky's second eq for the Metas, then do Dirac Live on top of it to blend it with my Sb 2000. I'm very pleased with the result.
 
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Ata

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I use Maiky's second eq for the Metas, then do Dirac Live on top of it to blend it with my Sb 2000. I'm very pleased with the result.

That is a very good approach. What frequency do you blend the subs and speakers at? Someone suggested I may need to go above 80Hz, something like 120-150Hz for best results, but that would mean I need to get a second sub and place sub+speaker very close, as CJH did.
 

phoenixdogfan

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That is a very good approach. What frequency do you blend the subs and speakers at? Someone suggested I may need to go above 80Hz, something like 120-150Hz for best results, but that would mean I need to get a second sub and place sub+speaker very close, as CJH did.
Right now I'm using 80 hz b/c I'm using the crossover in the SB 2000 which is 80 hz high pass, and selectable with the low pass. I used a miniDSP 2 x 4 hd when I was using my OG Ls 50s as my main speakers, but it has broken. I plan to use something like Ekio or Defonica as a software x over on my Windows box and feed the separate mains and sub channel into the Octo Dac 8 Pro when it finally arrives (been waiting 20 weeks). In any case, the set up sounds outstanding even without the aid of the miniDSP, better by far the the OG LS 50s with Maiky's eq for them and DL, and that setup was crossed over at 100 hz and eq'd with the miniDSP 2 x 4.

So I do think there's even more performance to be had out of the Metas when I get the equipment I need to run them with a true digital crossover at 100-120 hz + Maiky's EQ + DL 3 + Purifi Eigentact amp + Octo DAC 8 Pro Preamp/Dac.

Btw, I don't think running a single sub at 100 hz creates any problems with bass anomalies at all, and I did that for a year with my miniDSP and OG LS50's before the MDSP gave out. YMMV at 150 hz, though.
 
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Ata

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Right now I'm using 80 hz b/c I'm using the crossover in the SB 2000 which is 80 hz high pass, and selectable with the low pass. I used a miniDSP 2 x 4 hd when I was using my OG Ls 50s as my main speakers, but it has broken. I plan to use something like Ekio or Defonica as a software x over on my Windows box and feed the separate mains and sub channel into the Octo Dac 8 Pro when it finally arrives (been waiting 20 weeks). In any case, the set up sounds outstanding even without the aid of the miniDSP, better by far the the OG LS 50s with Maiky's eq for them and DL, and that setup was crossed over at 100 hz and eq'd with the miniDSP 2 x 4.

So I do think there's even more performance to be had out of the Metas when I get the equipment I need to run them with a true digital crossover at 100-120 hz + Maiky's EQ + DL 3 + Purifi Eigentact amp + Octo DAC 8 Pro Preamp/Dac.

This sounds like a dream setup, higher sub xover to reduce IMD, and digital xover at 2.1 KHz should help with any physical xover artifacts.

My listening space doubles up as a home theatre, thus I will limit myself to SW EQ for the 2 channel solution, AVR sub integration, and no EQ for home cinema other than what the AVR can do natively.

Btw, I don't think running a single sub at 100 hz creates any problems with bass anomalies at all, and I did that for a year with my miniDSP and OG LS50's before the MDSP gave out. YMMV at 150 hz, though.

Was the sub placed close to the speakers or closer to the listening position?
 

phoenixdogfan

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This sounds like a dream setup, higher sub xover to reduce IMD, and digital xover at 2.1 KHz should help with any physical xover artifacts.

My listening space doubles up as a home theatre, thus I will limit myself to SW EQ for the 2 channel solution, AVR sub integration, and no EQ for home cinema other than what the AVR can do natively.



Was the sub placed close to the speakers or closer to the listening position?
If you had JRiver and Dirac Live and a software based crossover, you could do what JRiver call separate zones for each use case (2.1 stereo and multi channel home theater with the sub used for LFE.) You would just use a different crossover and sub tuning for each use case, and Jriver could even do that automatically by switching zones based on the decision rules you give it for which zone to make active.

This will be one of my projects when all the hardware I've already paid for finally arrives at my door. I'll probably be adding a second (used hopefully) SB 2000 and bumping the xover up to 150hz at that point.

Finally, Dirac has a multi bass management module which is supposed to be major improvement for integrating subs and mains, and it includes a crossover as well, so at that point, JRiver + Dirac Live 3 with multi channel base mgt should become my ultimate solution,.

And the electronics and software on the system are such that they could remain at the heart of any stereo/home theater system regardless of cost. If at some point I get more room for my hobby and decide I want a pair of F328be's or a Reference 5 by Kef, this system could easily power it and my 4 Ls 50's coud be employed for surround duty.
 
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Ata

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If you had JRiver and Dirac Live and a software based crossover, you could do what JRiver call separate zones for each use case (2.1 stereo and multi channel home theater with the sub used for LFE.) You would just use a different crossover and sub tuning for each use case, and Jriver could even do that automatically by switching zones based on the decision rules you give it for which zone to make active.

This will be one of my projects when all the hardware I've already paid for finally arrives at my door. I'll probably be adding a second (used hopefully) SB 2000 and bumping the xover up to 150hz at that point.

Finally, Dirac has a multi bass management module which is supposed to be major improvement for integrating subs and mains, and it includes a crossover as well, so at that point, JRiver + Dirac Live 3 with multi channel base mgt should become my ultimate solution,.

And the electronics and software on the system are such that they could remain at the heart of any stereo/home theater system regardless of cost. If at some point I get more room for my hobby and decide I want a pair of F328be's or a Reference 5 by Kef, this system could easily power it and my 4 Ls 50's coud be employed for surround duty.

Thank you for the pointers! This is within reach for me, as I have been running multiple generations of HTPCs since 1999, though for the last few years they have had no compelling use case with the introduction of streaming, Plex, and AppleTV and similar devices. I am out of date in my understanding of what JRiver offers, it seems it has been evolving all this time.

Would such a setup be suitable for Dolby Atmos or other object based sound sources?
 

phoenixdogfan

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Thank you for the pointers! This is within reach for me, as I have been running multiple generations of HTPCs since 1999, though for the last few years they have had no compelling use case with the introduction of streaming, Plex, and AppleTV and similar devices. I am out of date in my understanding of what JRiver offers, it seems it has been evolving all this time.

Would such a setup be suitable for Dolby Atmos or other object based sound sources?
Unfortunately, no ATMOS or DTS-X. Those codecs are being licensed only to makers of dedicated Home Theater receivers and processorss. But for the legacy codecs using JRiver could definitely be a way to go.
 
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