KEF LS50 Meta Spinorama and Measurements

[vkvedam]

Nice work, excellent!

 

[Kachda]

I really do feel there's an extra degree of 'coherence' to the soundstage. I wish someone could blind test this, because I'm very curious. As we've discussed many times on ASR, I'd love to see further research into the impact of vertical reflections on sound.

Anyway, I'm still a bit puzzled by the extra tilt in KEFs measurements. Just saw the new Stereophile has the Meta measured(the magazine, not up on the site yet), and it too shows no significant tilt. I thought KEF might've been starting from an off-axis angle, but then there shouldn't be on-axis diffraction. *Shrugs*

I think between me, soundstage network/the NRC, dennis murphy, and Stereophile, that's enough measurements to suggest these probably do not have a tilt, so that's something to keep in mind if you want to EQ them; you might end up making them bright if you go off of KEF's measurements.

I am willing to be a blind test participant

 

[thewas]

Thank you for your great review and measurements which makes my waiting even harder, since I have ordered them at my dealer 3 weeks ago but there seems to be a shortage currently in my country.

In my experience it does, especially in my new house/room where my room acoustics are poorer and was the reason I recently sold my Neumann KH120 from my desktop system and replaced them with my old LS50 (with EQ of course as otherwise I don't like their tonality) and will use the Metas at my classic stereo listening system. If listened correctly placed (as high distance from side walls as possible and only 15° toed in) they create a soundstage like no other of my dozens of loudspeakers.

Well, by big luck I found a only few hours used pair locally which I just picked up.

Now off to enjoy some music.

 

[Kachda]

Well, by big luck I found a only few hours used pair locally which I just picked up.

View attachment 99014

Now off to enjoy some music.

Nice..where did you get those color matched stands ?

 

[thewas]

Am glad you like them, had painted them myself like that.

 

[q3cpma]

If only they made an active R3...

 

[Ron Texas]

One subjective review I read said the Meta was an improvement, but not worth an upgrade from the originals. I bet with EQ they would be indistinguishable or nearly so. Too bad the piano black finish is gone. When I added subs my LS50's really went from good to great.

If you have LS50's or any of several other good small speakers, EQ and get subs.

 

[Kachda]

If only they made an active R3...

get a minidsp and biamp them

 

[q3cpma]

get a minidsp and biamp them

"Triamp", right? They don't have 3 pairs of posts, sadly.

 

[Kachda]

"Triamp", right? They don't have 3 pairs of posts, sadly.

Ideally, but I looked at my R3s and they only seem to have dual binding posts. So you cannot separate the mid and the tweeter, though I see some people are looking into it here -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tri-amping-kef-r3.14167/

Edit: oops, I see you already know that.

 

[napilopez]

One subjective review I read said the Meta was an improvement, but not worth an upgrade from the originals. I bet with EQ they would be indistinguishable or nearly so. Too bad the piano black finish is gone. When I added subs my LS50's really went from good to great.

If you have LS50's or any of several other good small speakers, EQ and get subs.

If nothing else, the Meta appear to have better-controlled directivity. Even being coaxial, the LS50 seemed to have had a bit of a directivity directivity mismatch. @Maiky76 had compared the LS50 with the LS50wireless II and seemed to conclude the former could not be optimized as much as the latter. Though certainly you make major improvements to it with EQ and a sub.

 

[aarons915]

Well, by big luck I found a only few hours used pair locally which I just picked up.

View attachment 99014

Now off to enjoy some music.

Sweet, you're the one I was hoping would grab them lol. I'm really curious about 2 things when you have a chance to measure and listen some more. The first is there seems to be a difference in the bass response between the 2, I think some MMM measurements of both might clear that up. Also, once you have a chance to EQ both to the same target are they basically identical or are there any improvements in the meta?

For people without EQ, the meta does seem like a clear improvement for sure.

 

[thewas]

Sweet, you're the one I was hoping would grab them lol. I'm really curious about 2 things when you have a chance to measure and listen some more. The first is there seems to be a difference in the bass response between the 2, I think some MMM measurements of both might clear that up. Also, once you have a chance to EQ both to the same target are they basically identical or are there any improvements in the meta?

Thank you, funnily these were the first things I planned to in the next days.
My listening comparisons with LS50 w/EQ vs. LS50 Meta should be taken though with a pinch of salt as I don't have 2 pairs of similar stands to make direct A/B switching.

For people without EQ, the meta does seem like a clear improvement for sure.

Yes, I enjoy it already for some hours without EQ, while on the first gen I had to use EQ.

 

[aarons915]

I really do feel there's an extra degree of 'coherence' to the soundstage. I wish someone could blind test this, because I'm very curious. As we've discussed many times on ASR, I'd love to see further research into the impact of vertical reflections on sound.

Anyway, I'm still a bit puzzled by the extra tilt in KEFs measurements. Just saw the new Stereophile has the Meta measured(the magazine, not up on the site yet), and it too shows no significant tilt. I thought KEF might've been starting from an off-axis angle, but then there shouldn't be on-axis diffraction. *Shrugs*

I think between me, soundstage network/the NRC, dennis murphy, and Stereophile, that's enough measurements to suggest these probably do not have a tilt, so that's something to keep in mind if you want to EQ them; you might end up making them bright if you go off of KEF's measurements.

I have blind tested the LS50 and the Revel M105 and felt the same way, because of the very good measurements of the M105, I was certain those were the ones I was preferring but it was actually the LS50 and it was unanimous on every song I played. Coaxials just have a clarity and clearness that I don't think you can get with the typical line source speaker and now that I'm used to the sound it bothers me anytime I listen to any other type of speaker. The other thing I noticed is coaxials sound "bigger" than other speakers and the smooth vertical polars are the only logical explanation since the dispersion in the horizontal direction is narrower.

 

[Ron Texas]

If nothing else, the Meta appear to have better-controlled directivity. Even being coaxial, the LS50 seemed to have had a bit of a directivity directivity mismatch. @Maiky76 had compared the LS50 with the LS50wireless II and seemed to conclude the former could not be optimized as much as the latter. Though certainly you make major improvements to it with EQ and a sub.

Thanks, but the Meta's are not on my audio bucket list, yet.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Well, by big luck I found a only few hours used pair locally which I just picked up.

View attachment 99014

Now off to enjoy some music.

You gotta do another of those excellent EQs of yours for these guys.

 

[Ron Texas]

Measurements, what matters around here:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

Review:
https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/equipment-reviews/1502-kef-ls50-meta-loudspeakers
The differences described may or may not be there. I'm probably too old to notice.

 

[TonioRoffo]

Thank you for your great review and measurements which makes my waiting even harder, since I have ordered them at my dealer 3 weeks ago but there seems to be a shortage currently in my country.

In my experience it does, especially in my new house/room where my room acoustics are poorer and was the reason I recently sold my Neumann KH120 from my desktop system and replaced them with my old LS50 (with EQ of course as otherwise I don't like their tonality) and will use the Metas at my classic stereo listening system. If listened correctly placed (as high distance from side walls as possible and only 15° toed in) they create a soundstage like no other of my dozens of loudspeakers.

I even prefer my ref 3's with no toe-in whatsoever, first speakers I owned that I like this way!

 

[thewas]

You gotta do another of those excellent EQs of yours for these guys.

Thank you, first want to listen to them though for some days without any measurement to not be biased by them. One thing is for sure, unlike the first gen LS50 they don't necessarily need equalising for my taste to sound very nice.

I even prefer my ref 3's with no toe-in whatsoever, first speakers I owned that I like this way!

Yes, KEF even recommends explicitly in their newer user manuals to not fully toe them in, just 0-15°.

 

[napilopez]

Found one more measurement that once again suggests a neutral rather than a warm tilt. Though again if you are listening over 15 degrees off axis the speaker could be just a touch on the warmer side. From I-fidelity.net: