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KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

killdozzer

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I just brought these home today. I love them. They do have the build quality on another level. I've heard a lot of people experiencing this strange effect that cleaner highs make lows sound better (or just allow them to shine). I also have this subjective experience that they play deeper although they don't play deeper than the original LS50.

I'm very happy I made this decision. It's still exactly what I liked just one tiny bit better. Now I keep on moving towards a sub and a miniDSP FLEX (sorry to say no Black Friday on these... :( ).

Oh, and one more thing; perhaps my room is a bit "bright" or maybe I like softer highs, but I find I don't care much for toe-in as Amir suggested. I have them almost front-facing and enjoy them the most this way. This is my personal test for highs; if I can enjoy these and not have them pierce my ears, that's how I leave the highs:

There's a really high pitched mouth harmonica in this song I really like, but am never able to enjoy it if highs are sharp.
Thanks Amir and all the rest for your contributions.
 
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Leon7791

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Hello,

I want to build an homecinema with the ls50 or the metas.

I have an denon x4700h and will use audyssey xt32 to calibrate them.

Will the meta still be an improve over the old ones?

Thanks a lot:)
 

ClassicalDJ

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Hello,

I want to build an homecinema with the ls50 or the metas.

I have an denon x4700h and will use audyssey xt32 to calibrate them.

Will the meta still be an improve over the old ones?

Thanks a lot:)
I have a 5.1.4 setup with 5 metas in a roughly 14x14x10 space (I use a 100Hz crossover and Audyssey correction up to 300Hz with my Marantz SR7013). I find the output to be plenty, but in a larger space you may have issues if you want to reach near-reference output. I've never heard the original LS50s, but the metas do measure more linearly than the originals.
 

tw 2022

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i think there are a few better options for dual use 5.x.x set ups than ls50 metas , but they shouldn't be "bad"... they just don't have much room for dynamics in that they struggle with high output..
 

Leon7791

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i think there are a few better options for dual use 5.x.x set ups than ls50 metas , but they shouldn't be "bad"... they just don't have much room for dynamics in that they struggle with high output..
Curremt i use the 3005se and habe no Problem woth the output, can t imagine the ls50s are worse
 

tw 2022

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Curremt i use the 3005se and habe no Problem woth the output, can t imagine the ls50s are worse
You are probably right, but the jbl 's may actually be better at higher volume.. The ls50s really aren't designed to get very loud...that being said, at moderate volume I'd take the ls50s...
 

Toblerone

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You are probably right, but the jbl 's may actually be better at higher volume.. The ls50s really aren't designed to get very loud...that being said, at moderate volume I'd take the ls50s...
They get loud enough to drown out any other sound in my house…can easily put my kids’ mouths on mute.
 

killdozzer

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Can anyone confirm, after a knock-test and a few hours of staring at those waterfall graphs, it seems to me Metas have more enclosure resonances when compared to the original LS50? They seem to be made from a different material, some composite, perhaps? I have to go through white papers.

They also lost the bolts going through the entire speaker and holding the baffle. I don't know how do you take these apart.

WhatHiFi says it's MDF, but in recent years I like to double-check this magazine.
 
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thewas

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Can anyone confirm, after a knock-test and a few hours of staring at those waterfall graphs
Which waterfall graphs as there are so many measurements of them?
The ones from Stereophile show an even better behaviour of the Metas
1212KEF50fig2.jpg

source: https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-anniversary-model-loudspeaker-measurements
1220KEF50fig03.jpg

source: https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-meta-loudspeaker-measurements

According to the LS50 Meta white paper the cabinet had only small changes and except the baffle is made of MDF.
A quick knocking test I just had on both gives me a higher frequency sound on the Meta, not that such means much, but interesting as it could also mean a stiffer or less damped mounting of the internal crossmembers.
 

killdozzer

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I saw a lot of people saying they add a sub or two, but keep the LS50 at full range. Now, this really makes no sense to me. What are your thoughts? I see that LS50 start to distort the low end and if it's ample the sooner it will start to distort. This song for example:


I can barely raise tho volume to 80dB and it just farts the lows, it doesn't reproduce at all. I thought this was why you do XO, if you alleviate some of the burden, you get cleaner&louder and you make the sub do the lows. (Sure, I know the amp doesn't get sparred, but I'm talking about the speaker distorting).

If my goal is full range and louder, wouldn't it be better not to make the mains do lows?
 

tw 2022

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I saw a lot of people saying they add a sub or two, but keep the LS50 at full range. Now, this really makes no sense to me. What are your thoughts? I see that LS50 start to distort the low end and if it's ample the sooner it will start to distort. This song for example:


I can barely raise tho volume to 80dB and it just farts the lows, it doesn't reproduce at all. I thought this was why you do XO, if you alleviate some of the burden, you get cleaner&louder and you make the sub do the lows. (Sure, I know the amp doesn't get sparred, but I'm talking about the speaker distorting).

If my goal is full range and louder, wouldn't it be better not to make the mains do lows?
i don't have the ls50's *but* i can't imagine leaving them run full range and adding a sub with the intention of high output listening... the entire idea of monitors is clarity , you lose that, full range at high volume with these...
 

killdozzer

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i don't have the ls50's *but* i can't imagine leaving them run full range and adding a sub with the intention of high output listening... the entire idea of monitors is clarity , you lose that, full range at high volume with these...
My thoughts exactly!
 

pjn

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I saw a lot of people saying they add a sub or two, but keep the LS50 at full range. Now, this really makes no sense to me. What are your thoughts? I see that LS50 start to distort the low end and if it's ample the sooner it will start to distort. This song for example:


I can barely raise tho volume to 80dB and it just farts the lows, it doesn't reproduce at all. I thought this was why you do XO, if you alleviate some of the burden, you get cleaner&louder and you make the sub do the lows. (Sure, I know the amp doesn't get sparred, but I'm talking about the speaker distorting).

If my goal is full range and louder, wouldn't it be better not to make the mains do lows?
I've started crossing LS50 metas over at 150 to get some harmonic distortions under control (based on REW scans, not my ears, although my ears can definitely detect harmonics when playing single tones at ~95 kHz). Subs then take over at whatever rolloff the AVR uses (Denon) - Overall REW scan then looks much better.
 

Steve Dallas

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I saw a lot of people saying they add a sub or two, but keep the LS50 at full range. Now, this really makes no sense to me. What are your thoughts? I see that LS50 start to distort the low end and if it's ample the sooner it will start to distort. This song for example:


I can barely raise tho volume to 80dB and it just farts the lows, it doesn't reproduce at all. I thought this was why you do XO, if you alleviate some of the burden, you get cleaner&louder and you make the sub do the lows. (Sure, I know the amp doesn't get sparred, but I'm talking about the speaker distorting).

If my goal is full range and louder, wouldn't it be better not to make the mains do lows?

I had OG LS50s for several years crossed at 100Hz and integrated with two SVS SB2000 subs. It was a potent and satisfying system. And notably, the whole point of choosing that higher than normal crossover point, was to reduce distortion eminating from the 5 1/4" midrange drivers. There is no way I would have run them full range and simply added subs.

(BTW, AVRs typically employ 2nd order high pass crossovers, which are not very steep. In hindsight, 120Hz may have been a better choice. Should have tried it.)
 

pablolie

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Indeed, both the original LS50 and LS50 Meta most decidedly sound better when complemented by a sub or even two. I have experimented with a single sub with cutoff at different frequencies under 80Hz, and two subs around 200Hz, both have been recommended repeatedly. I stayed with simplicity and went single sub at 70Hz. This both lowers distortion (although it is commendably low to begin with) at louder levels, plus provides extra extension of lower (lowest?) bass the LS50 don't provide to begin with.

In fact, I'd say you're not getting the best out of the LS50 unless you lighten their duty under 80Hz, IMO. And always keep in mind that even if you cut off stuff at 80Hz, the frequencies below aren't totally cut off: there is a slope, so there's still some low bass coming out of the LS50.
 
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killdozzer

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OK, nice to see most of you agree. Some useful input on XO right there, thank you.
 

aarons915

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I've started crossing LS50 metas over at 150 to get some harmonic distortions under control (based on REW scans, not my ears, although my ears can definitely detect harmonics when playing single tones at ~95 kHz). Subs then take over at whatever rolloff the AVR uses (Denon) - Overall REW scan then looks much better.

Since the high pass is 2nd order and low pass is 4th order, you should need to cut the sub off a bit lower to avoid a peak in the 120-150Hz range, since AVRs can't do this you can experiment with the subs built in low pass filter to cascade them. If they already measure good it might be fine but I've found cutting my subs off at 150 and only listening to the subs you get some vocals spilling through, which you obviously don't want.
 

tw 2022

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Since the high pass is 2nd order and low pass is 4th order, you should need to cut the sub off a bit lower to avoid a peak in the 120-150Hz range, since AVRs can't do this you can experiment with the subs built in low pass filter to cascade them. If they already measure good it might be fine but I've found cutting my subs off at 150 and only listening to the subs you get some vocals spilling through, which you obviously don't want.
I think, in general with mini monitors: 80/90/100 hz crossover is about right depending on the room and the subs overall performance... I think i have my emotiva b1s ( mods) crossed at 110hz with an svs pb 1000 pro.. It's a decent setup...
 

aarons915

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I think, in general with mini monitors: 80/90/100 hz crossover is about right depending on the room and the subs overall performance... I think i have my emotiva b1s ( mods) crossed at 110hz with an svs pb 1000 pro.. It's a decent setup...

Yes but my point was with 2nd order high pass and 4th order low pass you don't want them at the same frequency. 110Hz 2nd order is very close to down 6 db at 80Hz so you would actually want your sub low passed at 80Hz in that example. If your sub is also low passed at 110Hz there is going to be a bump from 80-110Hz since they aren't summing properly, Audyssey may fix that I'm not sure.
 

tw 2022

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Yes but my point was with 2nd order high pass and 4th order low pass you don't want them at the same frequency. 110Hz 2nd order is very close to down 6 db at 80Hz so you would actually want your sub low passed at 80Hz in that example. If your sub is also low passed at 110Hz there is going to be a bump from 80-110Hz since they aren't summing properly, Audyssey may fix that I'm not sure.
Gotcha, i think the higher end audyssey probably does..Btw, the svs subs can be adjusted to match speaker roll off( at least the pro series can)...
 
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