KEF LS50 Meta Review (Speaker)

[asorle]

Is anyone here driving these with cheaper class D amps like Aiyima A07 or something more like SMSL DA-9/AO200 or DA-6/AO100? I know these are hard to power as their sensitivity is on the low side. I would use them in a small room, about 3m/10ft of distance from the listening position, probably not pushing more than 85dB SPL as it is in an apartment with thin walls.
These SMSL amps seem like a really good deal for what they offer, but not sure about their power capabilities. DA-9 should be a bit more powerful but probably not much more than DA-6. SMSL DA-6 measured here 13Wpc into 8Ω. There are no reviews for the DA-9/AO200 but since they have 2 Infineon chips they should probably be 18-20Wpc into 8Ω.
Looking at how much power I would need, using these online calculators with 83dB sensitivity, 3m/10ft of distance, and a target of 85dB SPL at the listening position I should only need about 4W. That leaves some headroom for transients but I don't know if that is enough. Again speakers measure much different then in specs for their impedance of 8Ω, actually being much lower. I don't know how that affects things in this case as I am pretty much a beginner in this. I am afraid of doing any damage to the speakers themselves by running inadequate amps to power them. Any recommendations for this kind of a setup would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Vladetz]

Is anyone here driving these with cheaper class D amps like Aiyima A07 or something more like SMSL DA-9/AO200 or DA-6/AO100? I know these are hard to power as their sensitivity is on the low side. I would use them in a small room, about 3m/10ft of distance from the listening position, probably not pushing more than 85dB SPL as it is in an apartment with thin walls.
These SMSL amps seem like a really good deal for what they offer, but not sure about their power capabilities. DA-9 should be a bit more powerful but probably not much more than DA-6. SMSL DA-6 measured here 13Wpc into 8Ω. There are no reviews for the DA-9/AO200 but since they have 2 Infineon chips they should probably be 18-20Wpc into 8Ω.
Looking at how much power I would need, using these online calculators with 83dB sensitivity, 3m/10ft of distance, and a target of 85dB SPL at the listening position I should only need about 4W. That leaves some headroom for transients but I don't know if that is enough. Again speakers measure much different then in specs for their impedance of 8Ω, actually being much lower. I don't know how that affects things in this case as I am pretty much a beginner in this. I am afraid of doing any damage to the speakers themselves by running inadequate amps to power them. Any recommendations for this kind of a setup would be greatly appreciated.

PA5 drives Metas very nice in 18 sq m room with moderate and high volume levels

 

[Burgunder]

Is anyone here driving these with cheaper class D amps like Aiyima A07 or something more like SMSL DA-9/AO200 or DA-6/AO100? I know these are hard to power as their sensitivity is on the low side. I would use them in a small room, about 3m/10ft of distance from the listening position, probably not pushing more than 85dB SPL as it is in an apartment with thin walls.
These SMSL amps seem like a really good deal for what they offer, but not sure about their power capabilities. DA-9 should be a bit more powerful but probably not much more than DA-6. SMSL DA-6 measured here 13Wpc into 8Ω. There are no reviews for the DA-9/AO200 but since they have 2 Infineon chips they should probably be 18-20Wpc into 8Ω.
Looking at how much power I would need, using these online calculators with 83dB sensitivity, 3m/10ft of distance, and a target of 85dB SPL at the listening position I should only need about 4W. That leaves some headroom for transients but I don't know if that is enough. Again speakers measure much different then in specs for their impedance of 8Ω, actually being much lower. I don't know how that affects things in this case as I am pretty much a beginner in this. I am afraid of doing any damage to the speakers themselves by running inadequate amps to power them. Any recommendations for this kind of a setup would be greatly appreciated.

I'm using the SMSL DA-9 in a rather large 8.5x4,5m room and it's fine for me but I'm listening at 76 dB if I can trust the SPL app for my android phone. I could ask one of my children with an Iphone to confirm it, as the SPL apps for Apple are better as they all use the same microphone.

 

[asorle]

I'm using the SMSL DA-9 in a rather large 8.5x4,5m room and it's fine for me but I'm listening at 76 dB if I can trust the SPL app for my android phone. I could ask one of my children with an Iphone to confirm it, as the SPL apps for Apple are better as they all use the same microphone.

That is a much bigger room than mine. How far away is you listening postion? At what volume level does it get to 76dB? Probably really low volume and easy to reach for any amp, like 2W maybe? Yeah iPhones have much more precise SPL apps.

 

[juliangst]

How much better are the Metas compared to the OG LS50? I can’t decide what to get first:

upgrade to Meta, get Dirac Live or get a 4 channel interface to high pass my LS50 and low pass my sub.

I’ll eventually get all of those but it’s not cheap and I am not sure what’s the best thing to get first.

 

[MCH]

How much better are the Metas compared to the OG LS50? I can’t decide what to get first:

upgrade to Meta, get Dirac Live or get a 4 channel interface to high pass my LS50 and low pass my sub.

I’ll eventually get all of those but it’s not cheap and I am not sure what’s the best thing to get first.

For me, to buy the metas nowadays would be a very difficult decision to take, with the r3 regularly at 1200 eur/pair in various german shops...

 

[juliangst]

For me, to buy the metas nowadays would be a very difficult decision to take, with the r3 regularly at 1200 eur/pair in various german shops...

I found many B stock LS50 meta for under 950€ on different german shops. R3 are no option for me because theyre too big for my desk and my sub does all the bass that the LS50 is lacking.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Is anyone here driving these with cheaper class D amps like Aiyima A07 or something more like SMSL DA-9/AO200 or DA-6/AO100? I know these are hard to power as their sensitivity is on the low side. I would use them in a small room, about 3m/10ft of distance from the listening position, probably not pushing more than 85dB SPL as it is in an apartment with thin walls.
These SMSL amps seem like a really good deal for what they offer, but not sure about their power capabilities. DA-9 should be a bit more powerful but probably not much more than DA-6. SMSL DA-6 measured here 13Wpc into 8Ω. There are no reviews for the DA-9/AO200 but since they have 2 Infineon chips they should probably be 18-20Wpc into 8Ω.
Looking at how much power I would need, using these online calculators with 83dB sensitivity, 3m/10ft of distance, and a target of 85dB SPL at the listening position I should only need about 4W. That leaves some headroom for transients but I don't know if that is enough. Again speakers measure much different then in specs for their impedance of 8Ω, actually being much lower. I don't know how that affects things in this case as I am pretty much a beginner in this. I am afraid of doing any damage to the speakers themselves by running inadequate amps to power them. Any recommendations for this kind of a setup would be greatly appreciated.

I have the Metas. I'm powering them with a Purifi Eigentact which works beautifully. Also have the Aiyima A07 which I use to power my Kef HTC3001SE center channel where it works very nicely. I don't think the Aiyima would work with the Metas unless you listen at very low volumes. It's just doesn't have the power you'd need. Something like one of the Hypex NC252's from Buckeye would probably be another match. If you don't want to spend $500 for the Hypex, you could always look for a used Class AB. Something like a Hafler DH200 which you could find on Ebay will give you enough power, and could probably be had for l.t. $300.

 

[asorle]

I have the Metas. I'm powering them with a Purifi Eigentact which works beautifully. Also have the Aiyima A07 which I use to power my Kef HTC3001SE center channel where it works very nicely. I don't think the Aiyima would work with the Metas unless you listen at very low volumes. It's just doesn't have the power you'd need. Something like one of the Hypex NC252's from Buckeye would probably be another match. If you don't want to spend $500 for the Hypex, you could always look for a used Class AB. Something like a Hafler DH200 which you could find on Ebay will give you enough power, and could probably be had for l.t. $300.

I have been gathering so much information lately and a lot of guys say having high power amps is not really that important. Like 1W for small room and being close to the speakers is plenty loud. I don't want to use these to throw a party or anything. 85dB is loud to me and with these speakers that should require not more than 4W. Now, what is more important is having enough power headroom and quick and precise delivery of that power. Amp being in control of the speakers, as they say. Not sure how to determine that and what exactly does that mean.

 

[Kachda]

Not sure how to determine that and what exactly does that mean.

There’s your clue

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have been gathering so much information lately and a lot of guys say having high power amps is not really that important. Like 1W for small room and being close to the speakers is plenty loud. I don't want to use these to throw a party or anything. 85dB is loud to me and with these speakers that should require not more than 4W. Now, what is more important is having enough power headroom and quick and precise delivery of that power. Amp being in control of the speakers, as they say. Not sure how to determine that and what exactly does that mean.

Hope this helps.

How Much | Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers | English

www.crownaudio.com

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Btw, you might also want to look at the SMSL DA-9. Very compact 50 wpc into 8 ohms and 100 wpc into 4 ohms. Complete integrated Class D amp with the footprint of a desktop headphone for $250.

 

[asorle]

Hope this helps.

How Much | Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers | English

www.crownaudio.com

Yes, I have read that before but it is based on making your amp have 1.6x to 2.5x the speakers continuous power rating. For these speakers looking at the specs, maximum output says 106dB. By plugging everything in a calculator at 85dB sensitivity, 1m distance, that output of 106dB requires 126W. So if we use the recommended 1.6x and 2.5x, we get 200W and 315W, respectively. But, KEF specs recommend amp 40-100W, what I assume is total power or Wpc?

Then later in the article they say for nearfield monitoring with 85dB SPL average with 15dB peaks I should need 25W of total power. This just sounds very confusing and probably all that power is not ever going to be used in my case. If 1W is loud enough for me let's assume in my use case, being close to the speaker, small room, etc., what do I get by going with such a high power capable amp? More headroom for peaks, amp being more in control by having so much power available?

 

[KMO]

I'm not sure I'd expect the LS50 Meta to cope with 106dB continuous - I doubt that would be the (professional?) "Continuous Power Rating" referred to in that piece.

The 106dB is stated as "maximum", and I'd assume that was already short-term or peak. 100W versus 126W is just 105dB versus 106dB.

No-one is going to be playing them at 106dB @ 1m continuous - they're not designed to fill a stadium, just a living room.

As KEF says, 40W should be adequate (for normal distances), and 100W gives you 7dB more headroom. If you are nearfield, then less than 40W could do - 25W could certainly be adequate.

But if buying an amp, I would have an eye on future-proofing, so not assume I'm always going to be using it nearfield. Something like the SMSL DA-9 above seems well-specced to cover general LS50 Meta use.

 

[panther]

My sitting position is about 42 inches high for ear level. I’d like to get speakers off my desk and on to stands a bit further away from me. Trying to decide between 24 or 28 inch high stands and I take it the LS50 will be pretty forgiving about this vs a speaker like the Audiovector QR1 or ELac Carina With AMT tweeters. I’d also have a set is IsoAcoustic aperta stands to put them on the actual floor stands.

 

[Steve Dallas]

My sitting position is about 42 inches high for ear level. I’d like to get speakers off my desk and on to stands a bit further away from me. Trying to decide between 24 or 28 inch high stands and I take it the LS50 will be pretty forgiving about this vs a speaker like the Audiovector QR1 or ELac Carina With AMT tweeters. I’d also have a set is IsoAcoustic aperta stands to put them on the actual floor stands.

My listening height in my home office is about 46.5", and my speakers are R3s. I had custom stands made by Sound Anchors, which are 32" tall. This places the tweeter at 44.5". My listening distance is about 8.5'. At that distance, the height is very close to ideal.

Before I had the custom stands made, I had them on 24" stands and found the soundstage height on some recordings to be too low. Yes, KEF's coaxials are very forgiving, but you still do not want too much of a height mismatch.

In your application, I would go for the 28" stands.

 

[pablolie]

...Yes, KEF's coaxials are very forgiving, but you still do not want too much of a height mismatch.

In your application, I would go for the 28" stands.

<- Great advice. Any speaker will sound its best when the drivers perfectly match ear position.

Speaker positioning will always be a bit of a compromise. We all know the perfect triangle rule about setup distance.

But then there is the toe-in. That's where we get a lot of rule of thumb (unless you Dirac it :-D). I do believe that a great recording sounds best with speakers pointed straight ahead in that perfect triangle position. It'll reveal the staging at its best. But then again many recordings are nowhere as good as we think, and hence sound kind of weirdly distributed (you'd say "out of phase" :-D) with speakers that point straight ahead, hence we toe in our speakers to help those poorer recordings sound more focused as a general rule. I find that particularly true with the LS50.

 

[aarons915]

I've been happy with the original LS50 for years now, I had a year stint with the R3/R2c combo up front but then went back to the LS50 for the more pure point-source presentation. I've been wanting to try the Meta but wasn't in too much a rush as the LS50 with some EQ sound very neutral to my ears but with the recent sale on the LS50 meta I figure it's time so I ordered a pair. I don't have them yet but I do plan on doing a proper A/B comparison with it's own write up in a week or so. In the meantime I have messing with some EQ based on these CTA-2034 measurements, they smooth out the 1-3k region and drop the slight rise around 500Hz to make them more neutral.

 

[tw 2022]

I've been happy with the original LS50 for years now, I had a year stint with the R3/R2c combo up front but then went back to the LS50 for the more pure point-source presentation. I've been wanting to try the Meta but wasn't in too much a rush as the LS50 with some EQ sound very neutral to my ears but with the recent sale on the LS50 meta I figure it's time so I ordered a pair. I don't have them yet but I do plan on doing a proper A/B comparison with it's own write up in a week or so. In the meantime I have messing with some EQ based on these CTA-2034 measurements, they smooth out the 1-3k region and drop the slight rise around 500Hz to make them more neutral.

View attachment 236386

That'll be interesting... I'm sure we'll get an update as you listen...

 

[juliangst]

High-pass LS50+ sub vs classic setup:

People always say that you need to highpass your mains so I tried that as well. I don't have a multichannel interface so I used 2 DACs with Voicemeeter.
I used a 80hz, 24dB/oct crossover and created flat filters from 25-400Hz using REW.

The red graph is exactly this setup. The blue graph is a 'classic setup' with the sub connected to the pre-outs of my integrated amp and crossover set to about 75Hz. The classic setup also has it's own flat filters.

Measurements were done with RTA and pink noise.

I can't really see a big improvement with the usage of highpass filters here. It's a bit flatter but that could be easily fixed with better filters.
I also prefer the sound of the 'classic setup'. It sounds more 'cohesive' and I cannot localize the sub. With the high-passed setup I actually hear where the bass is coming from.

I don't really need the headroom advantage of the high-passed setup because it's just a desk setup with a maximum SPL of 75-80dB at 1 meter.
I also prefer having a physical control like the volume knob of my integrated amp. With a highpassed setup I would need a 4 channel interface that has a master volume control. My pick would be the Focusrite Clarett +2Pre but that's another 400 bucks that don't really give my any huge advantage over my current setup.

What's your experience with highpassing the LS50? It makes sense in a large room but did you also notice any big improvements with a desk setup?