KEF Ci3160RLM-THX In-Wall Speaker Review

[daftcombo]

Thank you @amirm , very interesting review, with amazing results.

Have you been able to listen to it? I expect an in-wall speaker with such a directivity to be a new experience.

 

[AudioSceptic]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the KEF Ci3160RLM-THX in-wall home theater speaker using their meta materials. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $2,230 (each).
View attachment 474158
The Ci3160RLM-THX, unlike many in-wall speakers, looks quite nice without its grill so I chose to test it that way. Construction is by far heavier duty than any in-wall speaker I have tested. We are talking about drivers encapsulated in solid steel together with brackets sporting the same:
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The thing is so heavy that I had to get help to lift it up for measurement! It is designed so that it could be bi-amped if needed.

If you are not familiar with my Klippel NFS tests, please watch my video on Understanding Speaker Measurements:

KEF Ci3160RLM-THX Speaker Measurement
As usual we start with our anechoic measurements, assuming there is an infinite baffle (wall):
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I must say, I was not prepared to see such an excellent on and off-axis response! Other than a minor hiccup around 500 Hz, this would be a great measurement for any speaker, let alone an in-wall product.

Note: that dip may be due to resonances of the baffle we put the speaker in. So while it may happen with drywall/plaster as well, it is not directly the fault of the speaker.

Sensitivity is higher than average to boot (by 1 to 2 dBs). Our model for interpreting speaker preference is based on stand-alone speakers, not in-wall. But here, those results are so excellent that I decided to show them:
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Amazing that such results can be achieved with a passive speaker of this type.

Good news doesn't stop there. As you can imagine, good engineering courtesy of that coaxial design pays dividends in the form of directivity control:
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[I have grayed out the areas that don't apply as sound doesn't radiate behind the speaker].
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Vertical dispersion is narrower so you want to stay close to the tweeter axis:
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During distortion sweeps, I could just detect something odd at 101 dBSPL. We can see the reason why in comparing relative distortions:
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That hump is a bit exaggerated due to a dip in frequency response in the same area (these are in-room measurements):
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Here is the waterfall and step responses:
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Conclusion
The KEF Ci3160RLM-THX is one of the most perfect in-wall speaker I have tested! This is a market that is dominated by custom system integrators which spec products without much technical input from the customer. As a result, there is less of an emphasis on engineering excellence than looks and margins. Given this, it is commendable that KEF has produced such a highly optimized design. It is enough to make this reviewer forget the rather high cost of the speaker. If you want the best for your home theater, you know where to look now.

It is my pleasure to recommend KEF Ci3160RLM-THX in-wall speaker.
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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Amir, you said "a minor hiccup around 500 Hz", but shouldn't that be 260 Hz?

Anyway, is there any reason not to use these as "normal" speakers (with some sort of stand/support, of course)? They could go against a wall so no need to cover the backs.

 

[Nightyard]

Amir, you said "a minor hiccup around 500 Hz", but shouldn't that be 260 Hz?

Anyway, is there any reason not to use these as "normal" speakers (with some sort of stand/support, of course)? They could go against a wall so no need to cover the backs.

I've got the 5160RL and 3160RL and I'll be building 36mm mdf enclosures for them at the optimal volume listed on KEF's documentation. I've done it with previous ones I owned and they sounded incredible. I've currently got them in a studwall faced with just 15mm acoustic plasterboard and they're not anywhere near as good

 

[AudioSceptic]

I've got the 5160RL and 3160RL and I'll be building 36mm mdf enclosures for them at the optimal volume listed on KEF's documentation. I've done it with previous ones I owned and they sounded incredible. I've currently got them in a studwall faced with just 15mm acoustic plasterboard and they're not anywhere near as good

I'm thinking that Amir's measurements were with no enclosure, so do they actually need any?

 

[Nightyard]

I'm thinking that Amir's measurements were with no enclosure, so do they actually need any?

Kef list minimum and optimal litre volumes for them. I dont know about doing open baffle. Im building a media wall containing 3160rl left and right, 5160rl center and 4 12 inch dayton high fidelity subwoofers.all in 36mm mdf enclosures, the wall will then be covered in acoustically transparent fabric to hide it all.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Kef list minimum and optimal litre volumes for them. I dont know about doing open baffle. Im building a media wall containing 3160rl left and right, 5160rl center and 4 12 inch dayton high fidelity subwoofers.all in 36mm mdf enclosures, the wall will then be covered in acoustically transparent fabric to hide it all.

Interesting. I confess that I know nothing about in-wall speakers!

 

[daniboun]

In Erin's measurements, there's something similar but at a completely different frequency (which again makes me think it might be an artifact of the setup, specifically the mock baffle wall it's being installed in):

Just to share the link : https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_ci3160rl-thx/

 

[Ajax]

Oh, I didn't realize it was the same speakers. So seems like you are right. I will put a note in the review.

Hi Amir,

Thank you for the review.

Should your statement in the review "Other than a minor hiccup around 500 Hz", actually refer to 260Hz not 500Hz, maybe a typo?

 

[Jukebox]

Just to share the link : https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_ci3160rl-thx/

It's an older model with a different coaxial driver and crossover

 

[daniboun]

It's an older model with a different coaxial driver and crossover

You re right thanks )

 

[bogart]

KEF has repeatedly shown their mastery of the custom install category at each tier they offer. By the end of this year, the main floor of our house will have their ceiling speakers in every room. Based on the CI200QR pair I have in the kitchen already, the sound should be exceptional.

On the topic of enclosures - I regret not using their steel boxes for the CI200QRs I have installed. The sound bleed to the floor above is more than expected! We specified the enclosures for the rest. A word of advice to others - the boxes are surprisingly large, and the documentation for them is quite sparse on their website. Make sure you have them on hand early in the install process since electrical, HVAC, framing and other hidden systems will need to route around them.

Based on these measurements I'll strongly consider replacing Revel F206s in my big system - it'd be close to an even $ trade and wouldn't mind reclaiming their floor space.

I haven't seen any other mainstream brand's results compete with these. I suspect that despite the high list prices, these end up substantially discounted in packaged installations.

 

[beagleman]

Kef list minimum and optimal litre volumes for them. I dont know about doing open baffle. Im building a media wall containing 3160rl left and right, 5160rl center and 4 12 inch dayton high fidelity subwoofers.all in 36mm mdf enclosures, the wall will then be covered in acoustically transparent fabric to hide it all.

Yeah, open baffle opens a can of worms of "Other" issues, bass cancellation the biggest one, and baffle dimension "Peaking" where front to back waves "reinforce" and create about a 6db peak in the on axis response.....

 

[kyuu]

Anyway, is there any reason not to use these as "normal" speakers (with some sort of stand/support, of course)? They could go against a wall so no need to cover the backs.

Yes there is a reason not to do that. That sort of installation would be open baffle, instead of infinite baffle, which these are not designed for. The response will not be anything like what was measured.

 

[MZKM]

Note: Rating not designed for in-walls

Preference Rating
SCORE: 5.7
SCORE w/sub: 7.7
Frequency response: ±4.0dB 43Hz-20kHz ; ±2.6dB 80Hz-20kHz

​

Link to all graphs/data

 

[Highvolt60]

What? Why would the "soundstage" be "flat"?

Soundstage depth is what I meant !
It is always flat when speakers are up against a wall or in the wall.

 

[ppierre]

Soundstage depth is what I meant !
It is always flat when speakers are up against a wall or in the wall.

Because the wall is flat... (Sarcasm)

 

[amirm]

Amir, you said "a minor hiccup around 500 Hz", but shouldn't that be 260 Hz?

Yes, thanks. Fixed the review. I had earlier put a note in there that it is a measurement artifact anyway.

 

[Sokel]

Soundstage depth is what I meant !
It is always flat when speakers are up against a wall or in the wall.

Best depth I ever heard was soffit - mounted mains monitors in a nicely treated control room.
Forget the visuals about it.

 

[amirm]

Have you been able to listen to it? I expect an in-wall speaker with such a directivity to be a new experience.

As noted, I can't listen to them without a large back box to simulate actual use. The way it is, will cause a lot of cancellations and act like a dipole that it is not. So we have to trust the measurements/research that it is highly likely to sound excellent.

 

[Timcognito]

Well hope this excellent performance by KEF and Amir helps quell comments from the DAC averse members. Thanks Amir.

I too have a soft spot for Kent Engineering & Foundry company since I built DIY speakers from their drivers and help from dB Audio in Berkeley in 1979. My brother still uses them and they sound good (could be some bias and nostalgia there).