KEF Blade 2 vs Ascend ELX Towers as End Game

[amper42]

The cabinet for the ELX is small. The KEF Blade Two Meta's cabinet volume is 321% larger than the Ascend ELX's cabinet volume. Blade two offers 135% larger displacement. The ELX will not match the Blade Two Meta in sheer scale or the ability to disappear into a room. But it does offer a high-value, high-performance experience, particularly in smaller spaces. In larger rooms, the Kef Blade two will be preferred by most listeners.

 

[saltfish]

This is a very expensive way to get your mind blown again.

 

[Mart68]

I voted yes since both good speakers and bound to be someone who will prefer the Ascend.

Parameters were not specified as to how to win though - ten listeners and the majority preference takes it? What are the rules?

 

[Mort]

They are very different directivity designs - how can one beat the other? I agree one might be better than the other in any given scenario.

 

[2Sunny]

They are very different directivity designs - how can one beat the other? I agree one might be better than the other in any given scenario.

I realize there are a myriad of factors that could change the poll, but I will try to elucidate my thoughts. Essentially I'm thinking of Erin and his review where he said for him the Blade 2 Meta would be his End Game speaker (I think he said that if I'm wrong then please someone correct me!) and if you follow his videos you know he lives in modest conditions and has a modest mostly untreated living room where he listens to music so I was curios about that kind of situation. Add to that I found a thread where an ASR member was looking at those two speakers as an option and found the post I quoted. This is what got me interested in the question - KEF Blade 2 vs Ascend ELX) - but my unwritten other assumptions were kinda these:

- a room under 500 sq ft
- a sub attached
- max listening level around 100 dB

Obviously if one were looking for the best option for a room larger than 500 sq ft and not using a sub I would expect the Blades to win, but again I was kinda assuming the above.

 

[2Sunny]

This is a very expensive way to get your mind blown again.

Hah, you already guessed where I think I'm going; although I will add that I'm looking at the used market and it seems that I might be able to find a pair for under $20k after which, hopefully, I could resell them without too much of a loss. I'm actually considering building a special room in my basement. Before cancer I had an enormous saltwater fish tank and a sump room in the basement which is currently unused so I could easily turn that into a specialized listening/testing room which might be super entertaining for me especially if I found folks in the immediate area willing to come up and take part in blind tests.

My aquarium at it's zenith in 2011

and the sump room (20x20) which is empty today that I could use as a HT.

 

[Mort]

As many in that thread said, the biggest differences will be price, bass reproduction and directivity.

Ribbon tweeters, (and competently executed wide directivity designs in general,) have a particular big, ethereal sound. They are great sometimes, especially with acoustic recordings imo, and very much an individual taste thing. They also make the soundstage a little blurrier. By contrast, the Kef's coaxial design is generally going to make the soundstage clearer and smaller. For the record, I own a blade ribbon tower (Philharmonic Audio) and several (Genelec) coaxial active monitors. I like them both but for serious listening I want the coaxial monitors.

The KEF will go much lower and really doesn't need a subwoofer. I wouldn't even use one with them unless you failed to hit your SPL target. The crossover will be better than anything you can do yourself, most likely.

Price - you'll have to decide. For Blade 2 money, I would go with an active monitor which has many advantages.

 

[amper42]

Hah, you already guessed where I think I'm going; although I will add that I'm looking at the used market and it seems that I might be able to find a pair for under $20k after which, hopefully, I could resell them without too much of a loss. I'm actually considering building a special room in my basement. Before cancer I had an enormous saltwater fish tank and a sump room in the basement which is currently unused so I could easily turn that into a specialized listening/testing room which might be super entertaining for me especially if I found folks in the immediate area willing to come up and take part in blind tests.

My aquarium at it's zenith in 2011

and the sump room (20x20) which is empty today that I could use as a HT.

View attachment 457828

That sump room looks like it may get a bit humid?

 

[JustJones]

I've seen the Blade 1 meta used under $20K. TMR has 2 pairs at the moment.

looking at the used market and it seems that I might be able to find a pair for under $20k

 

[JustJones]

I used to have a salt tank back in the early 2000's when you could still buy
" live rock". I used a reverse osmosis system and the rock did most of the filtering. Yours was beautiful i could never keep fish alive for very long, about 1 year. I think to many were caught with blasting. Love the clown fish in the anemone.

Edit: they would always claim "hand caught" but...

 

[Multicore]

Yes, ELX could beat a Blade in a blind test.

The designs are so different that, depending how you set up the listening environment, either could sound better. Hence ELX cound beat Blade. QED.

 

[2Sunny]

That sump room looks like it may get a bit humid?

It did get humid for sure. The first year I didn't have a "sump room" and I ended up with thousands of dollars of corrosion damage to my electrical panel which was in the same unfinished area so I had to build the room to contain the sump and put a vent in that drew out the humid air and add heavy duty dehumidification to the finished areas. Sadly I had to quit the hobby 'cuz I just couldn't keep up the maintenance, BUT that does leave me with an empty and dry room now which would be perfect for a home theater.

Having a dedicated room in the basement is not something I ever thought of until recently, but the more I think about building a dedicated home theater room the more I like the idea especially since I generally can't watch movies anywhere near as loud as I would like right now given that my HT is in my main living room and right below the master bedroom.

 

[2Sunny]

. . .

Price - you'll have to decide. For Blade 2 money, I would go with an active monitor which has many advantages.

For me and this poll it's not about my listening. It's more my being interested in knowing at what price point people with trained hearing would pick the cheaper speaker in a preference test over an expensive speaker. Personally I think there are many speakers in the sub-$5k per pair price range that would come out equal to Blade 2 Metas and THAT is where my interest lies. More generally my curiosity is:

Are there $5k speaker pairs that would win in a blind preference test against any and all over $20k speakers?

Of course I'm talking about speakers of the same category. In other words I'm not talking about speakers designed to reach concert hall levels of sound, but rather very specifically tower speakers designed for rooms under 500 sq ft and designed for the general mass market. It would also be interesting to determine if bookshelf speakers would beat out towers in blind tests assuming they were tested with subwoofers included in the test.

I also recognize that for the vast majority of posters here on ASR these are ridiculous questions with no bearing on reality, BUT that's where my interest lies at the moment and is what's drove me to start the poll.

 

[kemmler3D]

Blade has slightly better FR and better directivity, but they're pretty close overall, and there are small aspects where the differences are not easy to call better or worse.

I think in most rooms the Blade would win, but there are undoubtedly specific room and specific recordings where the ELX would win. Especially if you assert the bass is equalized between the two, it's not going to be a blowout either way.

I think this is basically just a good opportunity to point out that price isn't definitive and measurements don't dictate preference. Good speakers are all good, but maybe great speakers are in the ear of the listener. I can tell you which of these speakers is technically more performant with a glance at the graphs, but I can't tell you which one you're going to like more.

e: just realized most of the discussion is about the Blade 2, not the Blade 1, but it doesn't change the substance of my comment, and you can see the comparison here.

 

[amper42]

For me and this poll it's not about my listening. It's more my being interested in knowing at what price point people with trained hearing would pick the cheaper speaker in a preference test over an expensive speaker. Personally I think there are many speakers in the sub-$5k per pair price range that would come out equal to Blade 2 Metas and THAT is where my interest lies. More generally my curiosity is:

Are there $5k speaker pairs that would win in a blind preference test against any and all over $20k speakers?

Of course I'm talking about speakers of the same category. In other words I'm not talking about speakers designed to reach concert hall levels of sound, but rather very specifically tower speakers designed for rooms under 500 sq ft and designed for the general mass market. It would also be interesting to determine if bookshelf speakers would beat out towers in blind tests assuming they were tested with subwoofers included in the test.

I also recognize that for the vast majority of posters here on ASR these are ridiculous questions with no bearing on reality, BUT that's where my interest lies at the moment and is what's drove me to start the poll.

I have the Ascend Sierra Towers. It's the version before the ELX. I replaced them with a pair of Revel F228Be on sale at 6K. The Revels are an amazing step up. It's not even a comparison. I looked at upgrading the Sierra Towers to ELX but I would still end up with smallish unappealing speaker cabinets, compared to the Walnut F228Be that offers amazing style and significantly more cabinet volume.

Personally, I wouldn't even consider the Blade 2 meta. I don't like narrow dispersion designs and it looks like they're from Mars. I also wonder how easily they could be tipped over. Not to mention the cost is stupid high. So my answer, is I wouldn't buy either ELX or Blade two.

 

[Apesbrain]

Since performing such a blind test will likely never happen I was wondering what the split is amongst ASR members as to what percentage would agree or not.

"Agree" with what? That two speakers of completely different design will sound different? Of course they will. Set aside that one costs five times what the other does and is an all-out technological tour de force. I have no idea what "beating in a blind test" even looks like as speaker preference is totally subjective. You like what you like and I like what I like.

"Do you believe..."? Audio Science Review is hardly the place for this kind of navel-gazing.

 

[2Sunny]

I have the Ascend Sierra Towers. It's the version before the ELX. I replaced them with a pair of Revel F228Be on sale at 6K. The Revels are an amazing step up. It's not even a comparison. I looked at upgrading the Sierra Towers to ELX but I would still end up with smallish unappealing speaker cabinets, compared to the Walnut F228Be that offers amazing style and significantly more cabinet volume.

Personally, I wouldn't even consider the Blade 2 meta. I don't like narrow dispersion designs and it looks like they're from Mars. I also wonder how easily they could be tipped over. Not to mention the cost is stupid high. So my answer, is I wouldn't buy either ELX or Blade two.

The sad truth is even though I can afford to play around with expensive speakers and test them I have to rely on other people's opinions because I know, for sure, I can't hear a difference. I recently setup a blind test at home using an AVR with A/B switching, and long story short I couldn't hear any difference what so ever between Revel F36s, Revel F226s, and Ascend ELXs. I did have my son try the same compare, and he was able to discern a difference and had a clear preference for the ELXs. I am keeping the ELXs right now and I am super happy with how they sound. I also have had tremendous fun listening for the items Erin talks about in the video I link below, but all 3 speakers I tested using his tests had an excellent sound stage and very clear delineation of the specific sounds he points out to listen for.

 

[Mort]

Is that the dome tweeter on your ELX? It won't be as wide as that ribbon.

I went through something similar with the Philharmonic Audio HT, which is almost identical to the ELX. I ended up liking the more expensive speakers, but I think each has strengths the other lacks.

 

[kemmler3D]

The sad truth is even though I can afford to play around with expensive speakers and test them I have to rely on other people's opinions because I know, for sure, I can't hear a difference. I recently setup a blind test at home using an AVR with A/B switching, and long story short I couldn't hear any difference what so ever between Revel F36s, Revel F226s, and Ascend ELXs. I did have my son try the same compare, and he was able to discern a difference and had a clear preference for the ELXs. I am keeping the ELXs right now and I am super happy with how they sound. I also have had tremendous fun listening for the items Erin talks about in the video I link below, but all 3 speakers I tested using his tests had an excellent sound stage and very clear delineation of the specific sounds he points out to listen for.

View attachment 457862View attachment 457863

If you had a chance to demo a few good, comparable speakers in your house and you found a winner, that's better than most people do in terms of speaker shopping. I'd say now your challenge is room treatment, if anything.

 

[2Sunny]

Is that the dome tweeter on your ELX? It won't be as wide as that ribbon.

I went through something similar with the Philharmonic Audio HT, which is almost identical to the ELX. I ended up liking the more expensive speakers, but I think each has strengths the other lacks.

Yep. It's the dome tweeter. I own 2 different Ascend center speakers. One has the ribbon and one the titan. I'm not sure if the comparison is similar enough to be valid, but listening to the two center speakers with the different tweeters I couldn't hear any difference hence my reasoning for buying the Titan tweeter on the ELX. Regardless it is an awesome speaker and sounds fabulous in my living room, no question.