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KEF and their slopping response, neutral ?!

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dogmamann

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Ok, so now in thread title, put a strike line through "KEF" and insert "Stereoplay"
Then comes the question, are all the speakers stereoplay measured flat, hyped up in treble ?
 

fineMen

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Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's 2023. If I had to live with a commercial offering, I'd definitely EQ it how I pleased. The chances of them getting it just the way you like are very slim.
As to report a positive result, even with the outdated, old R-series R3 I get a perfectly balanced in-room response. Only that with the couch free-standing in the mids of a quite large European room the bass needs support from either an equalizer or my two subs. It then is easy to adjust the bass to some elevation response in the lowest register, without subs still with no distortion penalty. The mids are straight, the upper mids and treble start to roll off at about 1kHz.

As it should be by the book ;-)

What one should not do (with R3) is to e/q the humble (-2,5dB) on-axis dip at or around 2kHz, as such would raise listening fatigue rather quickly.

Keep listening volumes in check, as these speakers appear weaker, less expressive, even 'thin' than they actually are. That's well understood with many (real?) studio monitors. What the regular Paul misses is tonal attractors (colorations), dynamic compression of many sorts, podgy intermodulation and hissy distortion residue. Hence, the music is killing boredom, the sound is.

Then comes the question, are all the speakers stereoplay measured flat, hyped up in treble ?

Did you ask them already? Did you spend a minute to study their setup? Still you didn't get clear what the real origin is of your musings in regard to your passer-by experience. To establish the Stereoplay as proof for your accusations won't do?
 

HarmonicTHD

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I didn’t say I heard a roll off, but I meant the graphs has a 6 db roll off. So stereoplay has to get their ducks in the row than me.
Well you made a choice of selectively basing your statement on one source only and come out guns blazing.

The more prudent and scientific approach could have been: Look fellas there is Amir, Erin etc measurements (and it is not that these measurements are difficult to find or research) and they differ from Stereoplay - Why is that?
Asking a question instead of making a (bold/false) statement would have led to a different discussion and response. No? Give it some thought.
 
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dogmamann

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Well you made a choice of selectively basing your statement on one source only and come out guns blazing.

The more prudent and scientific approach could have been: Look fellas there is Amir, Erin etc measurements (and it is not that these measurements are difficult to find or research) and they differ from Stereoplay - Why is that?
Asking a question instead of making a (bold/false) statement would have led to a different discussion and response. No? Give it some thought.
You can ignore this discussion.
 

bo_knows

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I can't speak for KEF engineering as far as the tweeter built but I can provide you with my REW measurements and listening impression in MY room.

Attached is the REW file showing KEF Reference 3 (non-meta) response.

I will not comment on my measurements but will say that MLP is 8 feet and 6-7 inches (259.08 cm) from each loudspeaker.

I'm very sensitive to "brightness" (especially my right ear) and so far KEF Ref 3 has exceeded my expectation in walking the fine line between high-frequency information delivery and ear fatigue. Basically, I can listen for hours at an average SPL of 85dB (Z weighting) without ear(s) ringing and fatigue.

@jackocleebrown, my congratulations to you and your team on the excellent speaker engineering and product that I plan to enjoy for a long time!

P.S. All measurements were taken without ANY EQ. Denon AVR in pure direct mode.
 

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fineMen

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You can ignore this discussion.
I think not. To accuse somebody else, who is obliged (due to business considerations) to let go instead of defending the case appropriately is a bit unfair. I'm not advocating the manufacturer in particular. But a dissussion should make sense. First it should be clear what the starting point is. Once and again you refuse to clarify the (even subjective) grounds for your suspicion. Then you quote one publication of German yellow press which was debunked, at least regarding this case, multiple times already. And you insist, but on what actually? Not nice, really.
:facepalm:
 

bo_knows

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I don't want to sound like a hypocrite because I made subjective comments about other speaker brands (B&W comes to my mind) on this forum. Going forward I will try to have a more "politically correct" or use a more science-backed-up approach when describing my subjective experience cause my comments could be read by less knowledgeable members or anyone else for that matter, and be persuaded from making or not making the future purchase. To some extent, negative subjective comments could be damaging to a manufacturer/brand and I want to be aware of that.
 
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dogmamann

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I think not. To accuse somebody else, who is obliged (due to business considerations) to let go instead of defending the case appropriately is a bit unfair. I'm not advocating the manufacturer in particular. But a dissussion should make sense. First it should be clear what the starting point is. Once and again you refuse to clarify the (even subjective) grounds for your suspicion. Then you quote one publication of German yellow press which was debunked, at least regarding this case, multiple times already. And you insist, but on what actually? Not nice, really.
:facepalm:
I accused Kef for poor roll off measurements in treble. They clarified it. I am convinced by the explanation. So who is now having the problem? If anyone has the same question, they can see the clarification here. (Stereoplays measurments are wrong). Simple. ✌️
 

MaxwellsEq

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I didn’t say I heard a roll off, but I meant the graphs has a 6 db roll off. So stereoplay has to get their ducks in the row than me.
So your musings about KEF making flawed tweeters and covering this up with a downward slope are proven incorrect.

It would appear you didn't like the speakers in one specific, non-described listening test and, based on a set of questionable tests from only one publication (rather than the spread of measurements others have shown you), you drew an apparently incorrect conclusion about the competence of expert driver designers and suggested they had covered up their incompetence.

I think you should correct the title and your original post, since it seems unfair on KEF.
 
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dogmamann

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So your musings about KEF making flawed tweeters and covering this up with a downward slope are proven incorrect.

It would appear you didn't like the speakers in one specific, non-described listening test and, based on a set of questionable tests from only one publication (rather than the spread of measurements others have shown you), you drew an apparently incorrect conclusion about the competence of expert driver designers and suggested they had covered up their incompetence.

I think you should correct the title and your original post, since it seems unfair on KEF.
No, I dont have to correct it until stereoplay says their measurements are wrong. Otherwise I will be partial to KEF. I got a clarification, lets hear the other side now. If they are wrong then there are countless pointless arguments in this forum based only on stereoplays measurements. If FairPlay is what is needed, all of them should be marked invalid and then deleted.
 

MaxwellsEq

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No, I dont have to correct it until stereoplay says their measurements are wrong. Otherwise I will be partial to KEF. I got a clarification, lets hear the other side now. If they are wrong then there are countless pointless arguments in this forum based only on stereoplays measurements. If FairPlay is what is needed, all of them should be marked invalid and then deleted.
:facepalm:
"Ignore" activated
 

symphara

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No, I dont have to correct it until stereoplay says their measurements are wrong. Otherwise I will be partial to KEF. I got a clarification, lets hear the other side now. If they are wrong then there are countless pointless arguments in this forum based only on stereoplays measurements. If FairPlay is what is needed, all of them should be marked invalid and then deleted.
I’m very confused by your description of KEF Reference as “bright”. I heard the Q, the R, and the Reference, and none seems even remotely bright to me. The R I think is very neutral, they went for the most inoffensive presentation, and the Reference was obviously rolled off. My impression is that it’s their “high-end” house sound. If anything, it sounded claustrophobic.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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I can't speak for KEF engineering as far as the tweeter built but I can provide you with my REW measurements and listening impression in MY room.

Attached is the REW file showing KEF Reference 3 (non-meta) response.

I will not comment on my measurements but will say that MLP is 8 feet and 6-7 inches (259.08 cm) from each loudspeaker.

I'm very sensitive to "brightness" (especially my right ear) and so far KEF Ref 3 has exceeded my expectation in walking the fine line between high-frequency information delivery and ear fatigue. Basically, I can listen for hours at an average SPL of 85dB (Z weighting) without ear(s) ringing and fatigue.

@jackocleebrown, my congratulations to you and your team on the excellent speaker engineering and product that I plan to enjoy for a long time!

P.S. All measurements were taken without ANY EQ. Denon AVR in pure direct mode.
Hmm by experience i guess what really happens is because the top end have narrow directivity+ the uniq is too low in height….
Look at ur measurements, there is 80dB at 150hz and 75dB in the treble, but when corrected my r7s using the umik1 is the HF slope change a lot with a Small microphone movement

I guess what happened there is they didnt measure the on axis response, there is a lot of measurements that doesnt show the slope.

My guess is because the uniq is too low in height and is hard to get the 0•-on axis

Btw i use a slope eq to my r7s. because subjectible i like the r7 more with that nice slope.. there is more thicccc sound and to me is fine, i only boost the 10khz-20khz, the brightness from the speaker is right
 

bo_knows

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Hmm by experience i guess what really happens is because the top end have narrow directivity+ the uniq is too low in height….
Look at ur measurements, there is 80dB at 150hz and 75dB in the treble, but when corrected my r7s using the umik1 is the HF slope change a lot with a Small microphone movement

I guess what happened there is they didnt measure the on axis response, there is a lot of measurements that doesnt show the slope.

My guess is because the uniq is too low in height and is hard to get the 0•-on axis

Btw i use a slope eq to my r7s. because subjectible i like the r7 more with that nice slope.. there is more thicccc sound and to me is fine, i only boost the 10khz-20khz, the brightness from the speaker is right
Hello BrokenEnglishGuy,

I love your user name, that makes two of us ;). LOL.

I understand that using EQ is an option, I just chose not to exercise this option.

For the two-channel listening, I let my room treatments do all the heavy lifting.:)

For home theater duty, AVR's Audyssey is deployed up to 350Hz.

I've seen the drawing of your room, understand your situation, and why are you using EQ.
 
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dogmamann

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I’m very confused by your description of KEF Reference as “bright”. I heard the Q, the R, and the Reference, and none seems even remotely bright to me. The R I think is very neutral, they went for the most inoffensive presentation, and the Reference was obviously rolled off. My impression is that it’s their “high-end” house sound. If anything, it sounded claustrophobic.
I did not mean them bright on the top end. I felt something was bright on the upper mids. Yes they sound very closed in, compared to speakers costing several times cheaper. Some say, its a feature, I think its inability of coaxials to present a wider stage. Infact, I never heard any coaxials sound nearly as wide (including genelecs) as a traditional multi driver speaker. Its a the price you pay for coherence. Out of the two I can live with either of it, though ideal would have been both.
 

Talisman

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No, I dont have to correct it until stereoplay says their measurements are wrong. Otherwise I will be partial to KEF. I got a clarification, lets hear the other side now. If they are wrong then there are countless pointless arguments in this forum based only on stereoplays measurements. If FairPlay is what is needed, all of them should be marked invalid and then deleted.
Your arguments are ridiculous, you keep building castles and hypotheses and wanting to "hear bells" as if kef himself owes you some arguments about something that only you have heard in a context you don't know what it is, listen only once, without any measurement of what was happening in that room. And still you insist.
The user who set it to "ignore" is right and I will follow his advice.
 

YSC

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reading a few times and the claims are messy as... and inconsistent plus without proof, don't know what to say in this to make it a proper discussion and not in the fan/hater mode
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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Hello BrokenEnglishGuy,

I love your user name, that makes two of us ;). LOL.

I understand that using EQ is an option, I just chose not to exercise this option.

For the two-channel listening, I let my room treatments do all the heavy lifting.:)

For home theater duty, AVR's Audyssey is deployed up to 350Hz.

I've seen the drawing of your room, understand your situation, and why are you using EQ.
Hi bo_knows,
I like how effortless the ref3 sound. I know how they sound because a friend have these

And yes my situation really needs EQ :facepalm::cool:

Is that a KF92?:cool:
 

lowkeyoperations

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reading a few times and the claims are messy as... and inconsistent plus without proof, don't know what to say in this to make it a proper discussion and not in the fan/hater mode
Exactly. Please keep the fan/hater discussions in the ATC thread please. :lol:
 
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