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Kal's Beolab review is out!

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Purité Audio

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The Omni mode is purely for parties it is quite fun, there is no pretence of 'correctness' narrow beam is where it's at, I find it incredible how much resistance the Beolabs and Kiis generate I suppose there is a huge vested interest to maintain the box stuffing tradition.
Keith
 

Sal1950

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There's only one "vested interest" at work in this thread far as I can see.
 
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I am interested in real step changes , nano covered drivers in a nice box /passive crossover doesn't really hold much interest for me.
Keith
 

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I do find it quite interesting the way a couple in the industry are now gushing over a product from B&O who's history in Hi Fi has been quirky, artsy, mid-fi products. From the line of linear arm TT's like above to the current lineup of speakers that look like spaceships. They always seemed to design with more intent on getting their products in modern art galleries than making music?.
I find this whole situation very curious. :confused: Take a look at some of their other products.
http://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/collection/speakers
You're not wrong - I've not even heard them. It's only because I have heard what this sort of technology is capable of when put together by an amateur that I am assuming that these must be really good.

I don't know what you are looking for in an audio system, but I think that for me it is 'separation and solidity' of the various sources, plus 'warmth' and 'richness'.

For me, the result of DSP and active crossover (properly done) is strikingly obvious. Because it's preserving the signal including phase and timing, it images stereo superbly well. Voices and instruments are locked solidly into position and there is no problem with the sound "sticking to the speakers". It is a very relaxing listen in the sense that it just sounds like real music with no artificial 'fizz' or 'boom' or unexpected sensations in the ears, and it does dynamics better than I have heard before.

As soon as I heard it, I realised that what I thought to be good hi-fi before was just a muddle. I'd go so far as to say that when you hear this sound from low cost components (which you can), you suddenly realise that the 'superstitions' regarding audiophile cables etc. that you were never quite able to shake off (you didn't want to, but maybe you spent $500 on a cable anyway, if only as a mental crutch) can be ditched.
 
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I asked B&O that very question and they agreed that some of their earlier products were more concerned with aesthetics than outright sound quality but that changed with the previous flagship speaker the '5' when they licensed the waveguide the Beolab 90 is an outright attempt to make the finest loudspeaker they could with the aesthetics having to fit around the engineering.
It is the finest loudspeaker I have heard.
Keith
 

Sal1950

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You're not wrong - I've not even heard them. It's only because I have heard what this sort of technology is capable of when put together by an amateur that I am assuming that these must be really good.
I imagine they are very decent speakers, for $85K they better be.
No one would argue against active crossovers, they can be superior in every way. DRC can yield amazing results.
But IMHO I maintain this.
All this silliness of multi-drivers spraying sound in every direction is a exercise in mental masturbation and in the main a marketing ploy.
Do you want a speaker with dispersion switches to play games with the imaging? Or something designed to do one thing at a SOTA level?
All else being equal, anything these sprayers can do, panels or horns can do better!
The JBL M2 with active crossover will CRUSH a Beo90
The big panels with little or no need for any crossover from the low midrange and above can outperform the Beo90 or Kii's in every real world way. With the addition of a little DRC, look out. The ML ESL15's made the Stereophool cover for a good reason.
A speaker similar to the JBL 4367 with the addition of external digital crossover and DRC could make a monkey out of the sprayers.
Witness the talk around here of the active $200 JBL's, dirt cheap design using the futures digital control is bringing results way beyond their cost.
Digital control is most certainly the future and the SOTA, it's just not going to come from a 21st century Bose 901
 

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I find it incredible how much resistance the Beolabs and Kiis generate I suppose there is a huge vested interest to maintain the box stuffing tradition.

Why would anyone on this thread have that particular vested interest?

For myself, I already own both active dynamic speakers with DSP crossovers and non-box speaker electrostats.
 

watchnerd

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I imagine they are very decent speakers, for $85K they better be.
No one would argue against active crossovers, they can be superior in every way. DRC can yield amazing results.
But IMHO I maintain this.
All this silliness of multi-drivers spraying sound in every direction is a exercise in mental masturbation and in the main a marketing ploy.
Do you want a speaker with dispersion switches to play games with the imaging? Or something designed to do one thing at a SOTA level?

Also, even if one believes in the design concept, there are alternatives.

The Barefoot MicroMain 27 uses multiple Hypex Ncore amps (Bruno had some input on the design), DSP (including 'memes' to imitate other monitors), and parallel firing bass drivers. Price for the Gen 2 version is $10,495 a pair:


barefoot_micromain27_gen2_pair.jpg
 

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watchnerd

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The JBL M2 with active crossover will CRUSH a Beo90

Digital control is most certainly the future and the SOTA, it's just not going to come from a 21st century Bose 901

The M2, without a doubt, is a serious tool designed for professionals. It's not even targeted at consumers.

All the weird modes on the Beo90 make it seem like a lifestyle product / toy in comparison.
 

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The Omni mode is purely for parties it is quite fun, there is no pretence of 'correctness' narrow beam is where it's at, I find it incredible how much resistance the Beolabs and Kiis generate I suppose there is a huge vested interest to maintain the box stuffing tradition.
Keith
I agree partially with the undercurrent you mention. But then again, this place would be boring if we never tore apart any product. :)

I was critical of Kii when they first showed it but in the second listening, I liked it and reported such. I will have to listen to B&O if they have it at CES.

NOTE: My company carries products competitive to both of these products. Everyone should assume there can be bias in my posts in this regard.
 
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The M2 is a good speaker ,I have heard them but not here unfortunately but they still can't do what the Kiis and Beolabs can, the omni mode is meant for parties, to project sound everywhere and it does!
I think you may just need to read a little more ( not you Amir) of exactly what these two speakers are capable of, it appears to me they are a natural progression to Toole and Olive's research .
Keith
 

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The Barefoot MicroMain 27 uses multiple Hypex Ncore amps (Bruno had some input on the design), DSP (including 'memes' to imitate other monitors), and parallel firing bass drivers. Price for the Gen 2 version is $10,495 a pair:


barefoot_micromain27_gen2_pair.jpg
Now this looks very, very impressive, just on the specs - if I wanted to do the "absolutely no limits on how loud it could go" journey I would start with this ...
 

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Now this looks very, very impressive, just on the specs - if I wanted to do the "absolutely no limits on how loud it could go" journey I would start with this ...

They're the newish hotness in the active studio monitor world. They also have models that are both bigger and smaller. I also like the fact that it has separate analog and digital inputs (both over XLR), unlike the Kii with its single connector.
 
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The Kiis input can be either you select from the remote, they also have a sync USB ,optical etc etc.
Keith
 
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One XLR which can be either digital or analogue and three more inputs on the remote inc async USB.
Keith
 

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Still fairly ordinary drivers with even more ordinary amplification modules...
:)Thought of that when I saw this in a recent speaker review (not the Beolabs):
Bruno Putzeys is reluctant to divulge engineering details of the drivers on the grounds that, particularly in the hi-fi sector, such details have a tendency to provoke prejudice either for or against a particular species of driver or diaphragm material. He explains the problem thus: “It’s the delusion that knowledge of the parts confers instant expertise to judge the soundness of a design

Edit: removed brand name of the speaker as not relevant.
 
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:)Thought of that when I saw this in the SOS Kii Three review:
Lol

I never judged the soundness of the design..

Though many more learned fellows have, some like it some don't .

Once Keith publishes his in room measurments we can determine what's really going on, is the bass really flat down to 20hz at high SPL.. Etc etc

Strange the delay though as according to Keith he's already measured them and they are the best measuring speakers he owns ... But why not publish said measurments .. :eek:
 
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