Kali LP UNF vs Edifier MR3

[Volutrik]

Are the Kalis worth the extra money? Both are pretty flat, so I don't think they're gonna be so different in this aspect. But what about soundstage and the sensation of envelopment between the two?

 

[Curvature]

Graphs and Measurements for Kali LP-UNF

www.spinorama.org

Graphs and Measurements for Edifier MR3BT

www.spinorama.org

These are the graphs you look at.

Edifier has a massive resonance around 1.3kHz. Don't buy it.

 

[somebodyelse]

They're not the only graphs to look at though - check out the full set not just that horizontal directivity plot. You'll see a couple of other issues at 500Hz and 10kHz for the MR3, and generally more disturbance to the directivity than the LP-UNF. At ~3x the price the LP-UNF ought to be a better speaker though. Both are good in their price range.

What you haven't said is how you'll be using them. If it's near field but away from walls the direct sound will dominate, and the resonance bands are narrow so may not be obvious, and you could put the price difference towards a sub. Further away, close to walls, or if you move around a lot, the directivity errors become more important. If it's on a desk you need to EQ anyway, either with their presets or something external. You might also consider the competition - the Adam D3V came out well in Erin's review too, but for some reason the results haven't made it to spinorama.org yet. The Kanto Ora might be worth a look too.

 

[Curvature]

Both are good in their price range.

We should not recommend any speaker with a prominent resonance. Perceptually, it is one of the worst flaws.

 

[obsessive9119]

We should not recommend any speaker with a prominent resonance. Perceptually, it is one of the worst flaws.

That seems like too strong a statement. At the Edifier price (I got mine for ~$100) you’re going to have to make some compromises.

 

[Volutrik]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies!

I was more concerned about the soundstage of the two.

In Erin's review, he says that the MR3 has ±60° of dispersion, and the Kalis have ±70°. So I think the Kalis would have a bigger, more envolving soundstage, where I'd feel like I'm inside the music. The D3Vs are the same price of the Kalis but have ±60° of dispersion, basically the same as the MR3. So based on that I think the safest bet would be to go with the Kalis?

What exactly does that 1.3kHz spike in the graph of the MR3 represent?

Oh, and about the use case: I'd be using the speakers in my desk, right against the wall or about 10cm away from the wall, at ear height with some stands, and about arms length distance @Curvature @somebodyelse

 

[alankila]

If you have side wall very close, you may be better off trying to involve it as little as possible, so narrower dispersion speakers could be better the choice, and I'd also turn the speakers as far away from the wall as possible while still retaining enough treble -- literally too far past the listening point, e.g. right speaker points over to your left, and vice versa. The comb filtering due to nearby acoustic surfaces creating acoustic mirror images of your speakers is quite rapidly the worse thing than potential loss of soundstage. These problems amount to frequency response distortions up to of 6 dB (maximum positive) all the way to -infinity in the worst case when it's a perfect cancellation between the direct sound and the mirror image.

Wide dispersion is fine in big rooms as it does tend to create that nice big soundstage that people seem to like. I sympathize, but for that I would like to see several meters of distance to the side walls, or it becomes just a comb filter town. I personally try to get soundstage in near field by minimizing side wall reflections and cancelling the stereo crosstalk around my listening seat with some DSP I cooked myself. I think this kind of approach can work decently, as the crosstalk minimization attempts to minimize the direct sound from right speaker that reaches left ear and vice versa. This expands the soundstage as well, it is kind of like with headphones.

 

[Curvature]

That seems like too strong a statement. At the Edifier price (I got mine for ~$100) you’re going to have to make some compromises.

Poor speakers are defined by these problems: inconsistent on axis response, inconsistent off axis response (directivity errors) and resonances. The Edifier has all three.

Outside of that, Edifier is a mass market brand, while Kali is a pro brand with serious expertise.

There is no reason to buy junk.

 

[obsessive9119]

There is no reason to buy junk.

Except that the Kali is what, 4x the cost and substantially larger. That might not be a consideration for you, but but it is for many people.

 

[Curvature]

Except that the Kali is what, 4x the cost and substantially larger. That might not be a consideration for you, but but it is for many people.

Why would you knowingly buy something with significant flaws?

The Edifier MR3 is $100-$150 USD, while the Kali LP UNF is $350. Each price is for a pair. A single Neumann KH80 is $550, a single Genelec 8010A is $400, but Kali is competing in terms of quality directly with them.

I looked through the available measurements for small, inexpensive active speakers and the only other one I would recommend is the JBL 305p Mk2, which is $160 for one: https://www.spinorama.org/speakers/JBL 305P Mark ii/ErinsAudioCorner/index_eac.html But the Kalis are better.

There is another problem that is a lot more important for small, desktop speakers where you are expected to listen fairly close in: vertical directivity. That disqualifies a lot of otherwise decent speakers, like ADAMs because of their choice of tweeter. Narrow vertical directivity or significant vertical cancellations cause audible FR shifts.

Say you buy the Edifiers. After a while, for an appreciable upgrade, you would have to spend a few hundred more dollars to for a similar sound, without flaws. If you buy the Kalis, the only thing that would serve as an immediate improvement is a subwoofer. Otherwise the next significant level of quality would cost several thousand, IMO. That would be a larger speaker capable of more output and better directivity control.

Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies!

I was more concerned about the soundstage of the two.

In Erin's review, he says that the MR3 has ±60° of dispersion, and the Kalis have ±70°. So I think the Kalis would have a bigger, more envolving soundstage, where I'd feel like I'm inside the music. The D3Vs are the same price of the Kalis but have ±60° of dispersion, basically the same as the MR3. So based on that I think the safest bet would be to go with the Kalis?

What exactly does that 1.3kHz spike in the graph of the MR3 represent?

Oh, and about the use case: I'd be using the speakers in my desk, right against the wall or about 10cm away from the wall, at ear height with some stands, and about arms length distance @Curvature @somebodyelse

Measurements for speaker Edifier MR3BT

www.spinorama.org

Measurements for speaker Kali LP-UNF

www.spinorama.org

That spike (and it is not the only one) in the MR3 is a resonance. It means some mechanical aspect of the speaker is poorly designed (probably the port is insufficiently dampened, although it could also be the cabinet) and is storing and releasing more energy relative to other frequencies around it, moreover radiating almost 360 degrees horizontally, so any sound which falls into its narrow band will be unpleasantly emphasized. It's possible you won't hear it, but that is a matter of time. If you like music enough to really pay attention, at some point you'll hear it, and there will be no unhearing it from then on.

Just a note on how to think about speaker characteristics and figures. Try never to put anything, even to yourself, in terms of single numbers. Or if you want to, at least qualify those numbers in terms of LF, MF, HF. Try to think in terms of curves and trends for SPL across frequencies and angles.

The horizontal directivity plots I highlighted initially show, using -6dB traces, that the Kali is consistent from from 1.3kHz to 7kHz. Below 1.3kHz it flares (loses directivity control in the MF and LF, although it does so gracefully) and above 7kHz it narrows (although, again, gracefully). As you say, the key angle is 70 degrees. The MR3 shows more variation, but it's hard to say it's narrower on the whole. 60 degrees after 4kHz and 80 degrees below that until it flares, and the region around 10kHz is also fairly wide.

The main audible aspect that will differentiate these speakers is the consistency of the on axis (0 degree) response and the off axis (all other angles. Just "soundstage" is not a property of speakers. It is a result of the speaker's radiation pattern AND the room. It is a combinatorial property, a 2 of 1+1. I don't think these speakers will sound very different on that basis because, and this is important, they are small and you will be listening to them from a close distance. The direct sound of the speaker will dominate over all indirect sounds, which is why the consistency of frequency response is so important. The room itself, its shape, size and furnishings, will determine the indirect sound, but that becomes more relevant at larger distances.

If you are chasing immersiveness, you can explore crosstalk cancellation, multichannel or binaural (through headphones). Don't expect something amazing from 2 channel stereo. Certain music and techniques can certainly enhance perceived width, but it will never match a multichannel setup.

Good speakers in a stereo setup will take you pretty far.

 

[Krit]

but Kali is competing in terms of quality directly with them.

Highly disagree Kali Audio in terms of overall build quality was the worst between JBL, Mackie, Focal, Airpulse. In my opinion Neumann or Genelec should be light years ahead in terms of built quality if compare to Kali Audio.
Distortion and poor cabinet quality at medium to higher volumes. IN-5 was terible, LP-6 V2 was better no distortion but still build quality looks very cheap. Mackie also was defective but at least enclosure build quality seemed better.

Edifier is way cheaper 70€ vs 350€ 5x difference whats the point even comparing them ?

 

[Curvature]

Highly disagree Kali Audio in terms of overall build quality was the worst between JBL, Mackie, Focal, Airpulse. In my opinion Neumann or Genelec should be light years ahead in terms of built quality if compare to Kali Audio.
Distortion and poor cabinet quality at medium to higher volumes. IN-5 was terible, LP-6 V2 was better no distortion but still build quality looks very cheap. Mackie also was defective but at least enclosure build quality seemed better.

Edifier is way cheaper 70€ vs 350€ 5x difference whats the point even comparing them ?

I recommend reading books on audio and not jumping to conclusions.

 

[Krit]

I recommend reading books on audio and not jumping to conclusions.

In books you will not hear the difference AB tests is the best way.

 

[Krit]

I recommend reading books on audio and not jumping to conclusions.

I returned two monitors under warranty, but still the problem was not fixed!!! Tree different monitors and still the same problem..... Right side monitor was better but still not perfect and resonates at higher volume.

IMG_0437

This is "IMG_0437" by [email protected] on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

 

[Curvature]

I returned two monitors under warranty, but still the problem was not fixed!!! Tree different monitors and still the same problem..... Right side monitor was better but still not perfect and resonates at higher volume.

IMG_0437

This is "IMG_0437" by [email protected] on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

I'm not in your room. I don't hear what you hear, especially not through an unsteady phone. Do you have a measuring microphone?

Did you try to dampen vibrations with something under the speaker? Did you check that nothing on your desk or elsewhere is causing the vibration?

Edit: Did you try listening to the speakers in a different room or on a different surface? Did you make sure that it wasn't the stand vibrating? Did you try switching left and right speaker positions?

 

[Krit]

Do you have a measuring microphone?

No i do not have but i have very good hearing i can hear hiss noise from 1-2m away in bad monitors like JBL 305P or Focal Alpha EVO 65.

I did try to dampen the vibrations but end result was pretty much the same there are wide amount of songs that KALI audio IN-5 will not handle because of poor build quality and materials.

Another example this time more faulty monitor is in right side.

IMG_0382

This is "IMG_0382" by [email protected] on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

 

[Krit]

Did you try switching left and right speaker positions?

YES!!! Audio interface was not faulty.

 

[Curvature]

No i do not have but i have very good hearing i can hear hiss noise from 1-2m away in bad monitors like JBL 305P or Focal Alpha EVO 65.

I did try to dampen the vibrations but end result was pretty much the same there are wide amount of songs that KALI audio IN-5 will not handle because of poor build quality and materials.

Another example this time more faulty monitor is in right side.

IMG_0382

This is "IMG_0382" by [email protected] on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

You're wrong about something.

This is the spectrum of left versus right speakers in your recording. They line up very well other than what I would guess would be positional differences of your phone. There is nothing that stands out as being obviously different that would signal vibration.

Are you only talking about hiss? Studio speakers hiss because of low quality amps and high gain. The only speakers that have consistently low hiss are the Neumanns or certain Genelec models. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiss-list-s-r.18050/

 

[Curvature]

YES!!! Audio interface was not faulty.

No, the actual speakers. Not the cables.

 

[Krit]

Are you only talking about hiss? Studio speakers hiss because of low quality amps and high gain. The only speakers that have consistently low hiss are the Neumanns or certain Genelec models. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiss-list-s-r.18050/

Issue with Kali audio is in somewhere midbass area where sound distorts/resonates in only certain songs where are good amount of midbass. Kali Audio IN-5 hiss level is average or decent but still noticeably more than Airpulse A100.