Kali IN-8 8-inch 3-way coincident mid/tweeter monitors - first impressions

[thewas]

Not sure if this was to someone else, but to clarify when I say the Kali IN8 hisses:

-Power conditioning
-Fully balanced signal chain
-Grounded
-Ungrounded
-Same Circuit
-Different circuits
-No inputs
-Shorted inputs
-Volume at and between 0, -8, +12
-Changing the source
-Moving them to a fully treated studio with different power cables
-Following all troubleshooting, maxing input gain, using them in a different house

None of these made a difference.

Using balanced input vs unbalanced and volume 0 db vs 6 db (there is no +12) setting of course makes a difference in hiss, not that it disappears but in my case it reduced it enough so I personally can live with it at 2 meters listening distance.

 

[stevenswall]

Using balanced input vs unbalanced and volume 0 db vs 6 db (there is no +12) setting of course makes a difference in hiss, not that it disappears but in my case it reduced it enough so I personally can live with it at 2 meters listening distance.

My mistake, I thought it was +/-12. Anything from all the way up, to the middle, to nearly all the way down didn't help, unless you turned it so low that it couldn't get very loud at all.

In my case, the terrible hiss I was hearing did not lessen by using balanced connections. If you have a noisey source or a lot of RF, I'm sure it may help, but that's a totally separate issue from the self hiss of the speaker.

 

[stevenswall]

But you must keep in mind that almost everything in this universe is a compromise, so if a loudspeaker or bassreflex is tuned unnecessarily low you have at the same also disadvantages in other disciplines, there ain't no such thing like free lunch.

I'd be very interested in a measurement of the inherent disadvantages of a ported speaker going low, and how audible it is/an example. Then I can test it on my 8260 and see if Genelec made some error that is hurting my listening experience. Seeing as they paid attention to everything else, I'm skeptical.

 

[thewas]

My mistake, I thought it was +/-12. Anything from all the way up, to the middle, to nearly all the way down didn't help, unless you turned it so low that it couldn't get very loud at all.

The hiss is course fully proportionally to the volume setting, so the difference between 0 and +6 is the one that is expected to be from those settings, if it wasn't enough low for you, that is ok, just be precise in what you write.

If you have a noisey source or a lot of RF, I'm sure it may help, but that's a totally separate issue from the self hiss of the speaker.

I don't have either, my Focusrite is also not noisey all, I just don't make a fuss about it as I use them to listen to music and not silence.

 

[thewas]

I'd be very interested in a measurement of the inherent disadvantages of a ported speaker going low, and how audible it is/an example. Then I can test it on my 8260 and see if Genelec made some error that is hurting my listening experience. Seeing as they paid attention to everything else, I'm skeptical.

One disadvantage are higher and earlier distortions from the woofer, a reason why it's successor 8361 has 5 dB more SPL.

 

[stevenswall]

The hiss is course fully proportionally to the volume setting, so the difference between 0 and +6 is the one that is expected to be from those settings, if it wasn't enough low for you, that is ok, just be precise in what you write.

It's normal to think that, but the hiss not proportional to the volume setting on the IN-8, as there is a wide range in which the hiss stays the same. If you have a set and can hear the hiss, test it and see.

 

[stevenswall]

One disadvantage are higher and earlier distortions from the woofer, a reason why it's successor 8361 has 5 dB more SPL.

I'd have to look it up again, but I think that is in large part due to the 1" tweeter replacing the 3/8" one, and I seem to remember when they test SPL they give a spec that is not full range and excludes bass.

But yes, I agree, if you have something not go as deep you can more easily get higher volumes from it without distorting.

 

[thewas]

It's normal to think that, but the hiss not proportional to the volume setting on the IN-8, as there is a wide range in which the hiss stays the same. If you have a set and can hear the hiss, test it and see.

I just did and of its proportional to the volume/amplifcation setting as its just a potentiometer.

 

[thewas]

I'd have to look it up again, but I think that is in large part due to the 1" tweeter replacing the 3/8" one, and I seem to remember when they test SPL they give a spec that is not full range and excludes bass.
But yes, I agree, if you have something not go as deep you can more easily get higher volumes from it without distorting.

Its not really the tweeter as you can see from the maximum short term sine wave acoustic output on axis in half space, averaged from 100 Hz to 3 kHz at 1 m which is 113dB and 118dB correspondingly.

 

[Jmudrick]

I just did and of its proportional to the volume/amplifcation setting as its just a potentiometer.

On mine it is proportional beyond the mid setting. I don't detect any increase in hiss between the lowest setting and mid (approximately) Ii listen at mid setting

 

[thewas]

That is interesting as on mine it almost completely disappears when I turn the volume from the mid 0 setting to the left to full attenuation. What is your source and connection?

 

[Jmudrick]

That is interesting as on mine it almost completely disappears when I turn the volume from the mid 0 setting to the left to full attenuation. What is your source and connection?

At full attenuation there's nothing. There's then a baseline hiss that persists at approximately the same level to the 0 setting. Balanced XLR connection from RME ADI-2 DAC through JBL LSR310s subs.

 

[thewas]

Another (chinese, use google translate) review of the IN-8 with some basic measurements and comparisons
https://www.midifan.com/modulearticle-detailview-6678.htm

 

[Dichotome]

@ripvw: I’m just wondering if you‘ve heard the JBL 705P or 708P and if so how you think they would compare to the Kali IN8s? Given it was a close call with the 305Ps one would assume the 7 series would be a clear step up. I know the 7 series are more expensive, but I’m thinking second hand . . .

 

[stevenswall]

@ripvw: I’m just wondering if you‘ve heard the JBL 705P or 708P and if so how you think they would compare to the Kali IN8s? Given it was a close call with the 305Ps one would assume the 7 series would be a clear step up. I know the 7 series are more expensive, but I’m thinking second hand . . .

The 705 is fairly common at music stores it seems if you have the chance to audition one. I've heard that next to a 305, and used to own a 308.

The 705 has a little less hiss than the 305/308, not noticeably more bass extension (I consider the 308 a bit bass light for their size) and sounds cluttered if you play busy music, but talking to other users this could have been due to it being on the desk and the controls not being set right.

I would get a Mackie HR824 over any of these, and I'm not confident a 708 would change my mind.

The IN-8 doesn't have any of the hard treble at high volumes I didn't like with the 308, and if it didn't hiss I think the coincident driver has more audible advantages with a consistent soundstage than the 708 would provide with larger drivers and more power and perhaps flatter response. (Though some care about "Dynamics" which seems to mean loudness, and the 708 seems to focus on that rather than bass extension, similar to the IN8. They probably both list dB levels somewhere.)

 

[Fregly]

The 705 is fairly common at music stores it seems if you have the chance to audition one. I've heard that next to a 305, and used to own a 308.

The 705 has a little less hiss than the 305/308, not noticeably more bass extension (I consider the 308 a bit bass light for their size) and sounds cluttered if you play busy music, but talking to other users this could have been due to it being on the desk and the controls not being set right.

I would get a Mackie HR824 over any of these, and I'm not confident a 708 would change my mind.

The IN-8 doesn't have any of the hard treble at high volumes I didn't like with the 308, and if it didn't hiss I think the coincident driver has more audible advantages with a consistent soundstage than the 708 would provide with larger drivers and more power and perhaps flatter response. (Though some care about "Dynamics" which seems to mean loudness, and the 708 seems to focus on that rather than bass extension, similar to the IN8. They probably both list dB levels somewhere.)

Steven, what do you think of the Mackie line up overall. If I remember from another thread you have the Genelecs.

 

[stevenswall]

I haven't heard the whole lineup but would probably dismiss anything with any less bass extension than the HR824, as I don't believe in "too big for the room," especially with a MiniDSP. I'd also not bother with anything that doesn't have a deeper waveguide like the 824.

I returned the Mackie because it had hiss that was just barely over my level to tolerate it, and my used pair had a tiny grind/rattle sound playing some songs in one speaker... and I like the bass extension of the 8260 a lot, and the even dispersion that seem to stay fairly balanced even if I sit in front of the couch, on the couch, or stand up and stretch.

The HR824 was my roommates favorite though for movies and such. Enough bass that it was much better than the TV (which isn't saying much,) and vocals came through clearly.

 

[Rockfella]

Wish I were more mature. Would have saved me $4200.

You have very sensitive ears. Buy something that has zero hiss.

 

[stevenswall]

You have very sensitive ears. Buy something that has zero hiss.

I can only imagine someone younger than myself being even more bothered... but this is why I own the Genelec 8260 now: There is no hiss from my listening position, and even without balanced cables or power conditioning or other precautions, the hiss is very low even when I put my ear near it.

Also: With most of the houses I've lived in, there's often enough background noise to block out the hiss. Unfortunate that I could hear the Kali's over my fridge in the adjacent kitchen.

For even less hiss than the Genelec, an Elac Argo Navis would be ideal, though it has much less deep bass and some port chuffing.

 

[ripvw]

@ripvw: I’m just wondering if you‘ve heard the JBL 705P or 708P and if so how you think they would compare to the Kali IN8s? Given it was a close call with the 305Ps one would assume the 7 series would be a clear step up. I know the 7 series are more expensive, but I’m thinking second hand . . .

I compared the Kali to the 308p never heard the 305p nor the other JBLs...