Kali Audio IN-8v2 (Second Wave) 3-Way Studio Monitor Review

[ernestcarl]

I’m curious what frequencies bring the guitar forward as in the video 1 at 46:23?

Could you provide a raw moving mic measurement avg (full-range periodic pink noise) and full IR sweep (0-24kHz) of your speakers?

 

[Wolven]

Could you provide a raw moving mic measurement avg (full-range periodic pink noise) and full IR sweep (0-24kHz) of your speakers?

I'm not that advanced when comes to audio. The only time I have ever used a microphone was with Audacity that came with my Denon receiver.
Unfortunately, I cannot do any experiments for the next 3 months, I will give it a shot then.
Btw, I don't think my speakers sound differently from the ones tested in the videos, actually they sound the same.

 

[roladyzator]

Do experiment with boosting different parts of the spectrum by ear, maybe you'll find what you need.
It would be easiest to use an EQ that allow fluent adjustments (like using mouse to drag the filter gain and frequency around).

Measurements will also help.

A cheap way to do MMM is to use one of the Dayton microphones like iMM-6 or iMM-6C (using 3.5mm jack or USB-C respectively) to record audio with your smartphone and analyze it later in REW.

I was able to get such a measurement with the iMM-6 and my phone.

I use my IN-8V2s on desk against the wall, with about 1m listening distance and they sound good to me although I recall my previous Edifier MR4 had more treble which sometimes sounded "detailed" and "airy", but at anything above modest volumes the treble was fatiguing.

I've also tried them in a room, along the longer axis (far from side walls) and experience something similar.

Here is the comparison. I forgot to add the legend, sorry.
Red is IN-8V2 in room,
Green is IN-8V2 on desk, against the wall.
Blue is the Edifier MR4 + Presonus Sub8 subwoofer.
Measurements are smoothed to 1/12th octave for easier viewing.
I've measured both speakers playing at once for Kali, while MR4 was measured with only left speaker and the sub.
Also, MR4 was measured in a different place in the same room, hence such variation in bass performance (lack of energy in the 80-150 Hz range not seen on Kali)

Later I've added a high-shelf filter to the Kalis (+6 dB at 8 kHz) and the sense of "detail" and "air" improved, but it was a bit too much. +4 dB was fine, though.
With even a modest measurement setup, you should be able to find any areas to focus on and tweak around.

 

[ernestcarl]

I'm not that advanced when comes to audio. The only time I have ever used a microphone was with Audacity that came with my Denon receiver.
Unfortunately, I cannot do any experiments for the next 3 months, I will give it a shot then.
Btw, I don't think my speakers sound differently from the ones tested in the videos, actually they sound the same.

Without your actual room measurements, I would just muck around with the raw CEA2034 curves provided by Erin.

With your designed EQ filters in REW (room EQ wizard) select "Export filters impulse response as WAV" which is a convolution FIR file to be used/loaded/toggled on-and-off for a quick A/B listening test -- use whatever test tracks you want.

With REW, exporting 48kHz seems to work correctly as opposed to 96kHz (only two that I tested) probably because the generic EQ design parameters is set by default to 48kHz.

BTW, if you input the exact same values in the example below into something like rePhase, the filters won't match in the high frequencies. Instead, I would invert the generated curve in REW and re-design or "flatten" that one into a new filter set designed for rePhase.

 

[Wolven]

Do experiment with boosting different parts of the spectrum by ear, maybe you'll find what you need.
It would be easiest to use an EQ that allow fluent adjustments (like using mouse to drag the filter gain and frequency around).

Measurements will also help.

A cheap way to do MMM is to use one of the Dayton microphones like iMM-6 or iMM-6C (using 3.5mm jack or USB-C respectively) to record audio with your smartphone and analyze it later in REW.

I was able to get such a measurement with the iMM-6 and my phone.

I use my IN-8V2s on desk against the wall, with about 1m listening distance and they sound good to me although I recall my previous Edifier MR4 had more treble which sometimes sounded "detailed" and "airy", but at anything above modest volumes the treble was fatiguing.

I've also tried them in a room, along the longer axis (far from side walls) and experience something similar.

Here is the comparison. I forgot to add the legend, sorry.
Red is IN-8V2 in room,
Green is IN-8V2 on desk, against the wall.
Blue is the Edifier MR4 + Presonus Sub8 subwoofer.
Measurements are smoothed to 1/12th octave for easier viewing.
I've measured both speakers playing at once for Kali, while MR4 was measured with only left speaker and the sub.
Also, MR4 was measured in a different place in the same room, hence such variation in bass performance (lack of energy in the 80-150 Hz range not seen on Kali)

Later I've added a high-shelf filter to the Kalis (+6 dB at 8 kHz) and the sense of "detail" and "air" improved, but it was a bit too much. +4 dB was fine, though.
With even a modest measurement setup, you should be able to find any areas to focus on and tweak around.

View attachment 536552

I will buy a iMM-6 microphone, they are cheap.
I don't have a wall behind the speakers, but my right speaker does have a wall about 1/2 meter to the side, the setup is not perfect.
When comes to in-8v2, the green on desk response looks fine, the red in room response has some holes in low frequencies, providing I'm reading it right.

When I was experimenting, i usually cut the higher frequencies.
Bringing them up just to see if the guitars would improve but that's just makes everything too bright.
All in all, i was never able to zero in on the right frequency. I usually use foobar and couple of equalizer within that.

The switches on the back of speakers have not helped, no mother what combination I used.
Thanks for help.

 

[Wolven]

Without your actual room measurements, I would just muck around with the raw CEA2034 curves provided by Erin.

With your designed EQ filters in REW (room EQ wizard) select "Export filters impulse response as WAV" which is a convolution FIR file to be used/loaded/toggled on-and-off for a quick A/B listening test -- use whatever test tracks you want.

With REW, exporting 48kHz seems to work correctly as opposed to 96kHz (only two that I tested) probably because the generic EQ design parameters is set by default to 48kHz.

BTW, if you input the exact same values in the example below into something like rePhase, the filters won't match in the high frequencies. Instead, I would invert the generated curve in REW and re-design or "flatten" that one into a new filter set designed for rePhase.

I will try this as well. Thanks for the help.
Incidentally, can you hear the differences that I'm hearing in the videos?

 

[ernestcarl]

I will try this as well. Thanks for the help.
Incidentally, can you hear the differences that I'm hearing in the videos?

Such "demos" esp. the first one lack rigor in their test setup methodology. Highly personal and subjective. I treat it as mostly entertainment content -- occasionally informative -- yet can be misleading as well. This is probably why no one else here at ASR has commented.

What I would do instead is learn how to read measurements and validate such measurements by taking some in my own room, and then thereafter understand how the hard objective data (speaker measurements and room acoustics) correlates with my own subjective hearing capabilities and preferences. Learn DSP EQ as well in order to shape what otherwise is less than "nice" or ideal sounding monitors to something more neutral sounding yet also leaning towards my own taste -- which can change depending on the type of played content and listening volume.

Assuming the IN-8 v2 is unsalvageable in your own room listening setup, then I would look for and demo other speakers now being more aware what it is in their objectively verifiable measurements that I clearly do not like or prefer.

Here's a start:

 

[Wolven]

Such "demos" esp. the first one lack rigor in their test setup methodology. Highly personal and subjective. I treat it as mostly entertainment content -- occasionally informative -- yet can be misleading as well. This is probably why no one else here at ASR has commented.

What I would do instead is learn how to read measurements and validate such measurements by taking some in my own room, and then thereafter understand how the hard objective data (speaker measurements and room acoustics) correlates with my own subjective hearing capabilities and preferences. Learn DSP EQ as well in order to shape what otherwise is less than "nice" or ideal sounding monitors to something more neutral sounding yet also leaning towards my own taste -- which can change depending on the type of played content and listening volume.

Assuming the IN-8 v2 is unsalvageable in your own room listening setup, then I would look for and demo other speakers now being more aware what it is in their objectively verifiable measurements that I clearly do not like or prefer.

Here's a start:

I'm going to take a look at the videos later today.

I do have a pair of Paradigm Shift A2 powered speakers. These speakers are much smaller but guitars sound more powerful with more bite, very pleasant sound. However, my A2's are not as loud and clean sounding as IN-8v2. Kali's do have good clear detail.

 

[ernestcarl]

I'm going to take a look at the videos later today.

I do have a pair of Paradigm Shift A2 powered speakers. These speakers are much smaller but guitars sound more powerful with more bite, very pleasant sound. However, my A2's are not as loud and clean sounding as IN-8v2. Kali's do have good clear detail.

If you enjoy the speakers, that's what matters. I don't know anything about the Paradigm Shift A2, but Amir did review the Paradigm Monitor SE Atom:

Paradigm Monitor SE Atom Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Paradigm Monitor SE Atom bookshelf speaker. It was kindly sent to me by a member for testing. It costs US $239 from Amazon including shipping for a pair. I have to say, the Atom looks better than its price indicates: Look at the nice grill...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Measurements for speaker Paradigm Monitor SE Atom

www.spinorama.org

Not exactly super "neutral" either with a bit of accentuated highs, but also perhaps not too bad IMO compared to some other speakers.

 

[Wolven]

If you enjoy the speakers, that's what matters. I don't know anything about the Paradigm Shift A2, but Amir did review the Paradigm Monitor SE Atom:

Paradigm Monitor SE Atom Speaker Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Paradigm Monitor SE Atom bookshelf speaker. It was kindly sent to me by a member for testing. It costs US $239 from Amazon including shipping for a pair. I have to say, the Atom looks better than its price indicates: Look at the nice grill...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Measurements for speaker Paradigm Monitor SE Atom

www.spinorama.org

Not exactly super "neutral" either with a bit of accentuated highs, but also perhaps not too bad IMO compared to some other speakers.

Shift A2 are powered and have DSP, frequency response from 55Hz to 20Khz at +/- 2DB, apparently there is an extension to 30Hz, but anything under 37 Hz is not there, if I remember correctly. However, the base was very good, tight and not bloated. They are more bright than Kali in-8. So, I used to equalize them down from 3k onward. The Shift A2 was about $600 for the pair, 13 years ago.