Kali Audio IN-8v2 (Second Wave) 3-Way Studio Monitor Review

[tw 2022]

; what differences would you expect from a much higher end monitor?

the differences i've noticed: cleaner detail, more dynamic range, overall volume ability without distortion and depending on design , less box resonances...frankly , it isn't all that obvious at moderate volumes
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; what differences would you expect from a much higher end monitor?

the differences i've noticed: cleaner detail, more dynamic range, overall volume ability without distortion and depending on design , less box resonances...frankly , it isn't all that obvious at moderate volumes, and I think most "high end" audiophiles would be surprised how good a well set up budget set up can sound .. i'm not trying to "poo-poo" the kali's , far from it .. I was trying to *temper* your expectations to the point of being realistic to what you are experiencing... i'll let you in on a "secret".. I listen to a basic budget set up in my "main" set up : Denon entry level avr , svs pb1000 pro sub and emotiva b1 speakers modded by Dennis Murphy.. I spent more than a year fine tuning .. it's strictly a one listening position set up at about 7 ft from speaker to ear.. it's not the most refined set up but it's very detailed and fairly punchy up to about 85 db.. and that's all I need...those speakers that cost me $300 bucks 8 yrs ago will compete with anything that is under $1000 in this type set up , with the exception of dynamics and volume .. I'm happy with them for now...

 

[tw 2022]

Did it? Where? The AA has a preference score of 5.0, and the BMR has a score of 6.0. That is significantly higher. The BMR also has a much lower bass response (35 vs 62). Distortion on the BMR also looks better. For sure, the BMR is the better speaker. And even then, the preference score is just a nice number ballparking the preferences of speakers. It definitely does not cover all aspects of the speaker quality, and especially not if they will play nice with your particular environment.

my memory tells me the original (pioneer) aa scored a 5.4 (or so) and the bmr was scored (at that time ) at 5.3...you should talk to Dennis *before* you decide whether he's a "reliable source"... I understand your skepticism , but from experience I know that my experience has been that he is the one guy in the industry that I trust to tell me the truth about what he thinks .. he even does it without being offensive so often I have to "read between the lines" occasionally...

 

[TheDichotomist]

the differences i've noticed: cleaner detail, more dynamic range, overall volume ability without distortion and depending on design , less box resonances...frankly , it isn't all that obvious at moderate volumes, and I think most "high end" audiophiles would be surprised how good a well set up budget set up can sound .. i'm not trying to "poo-poo" the kali's , far from it .. I was trying to *temper* your expectations to the point of being realistic to what you are experiencing... i'll let you in on a "secret".. I listen to a basic budget set up in my "main" set up : Denon entry level avr , svs pb1000 pro sub and emotiva b1 speakers modded by Dennis Murphy.. I spent more than a year fine tuning .. it's strictly a one listening position set up at about 7 ft from speaker to ear.. it's not the most refined set up but it's very detailed and fairly punchy up to about 85 db.. and that's all I need...those speakers that cost me $300 bucks 8 yrs ago will compete with anything that is under $1000 in this type set up , with the exception of dynamics and volume .. I'm happy with them for now...

Lol. xD Nothing about that basic setup sounds basic to me -- name dropping Mr Murphy like that says those speakers would absolutely compete with $1k setups on sheer reputation alone. Probably wipe the floor with these Kali's.

I'm just looking for a studio monitor upgrade I won't have to replace for another couple decades. (build quality notwithstanding) Thought these would be it, but despite being great "for the price" its sounding like people who have heard better would hesitate to call them "great, full stop. " .... Although FWIW, you did reiterate my argument that these, and indeed most speakers, should be surprisingly good operating within their dynamic range, when setup with care.

 

[Jiraya369]

I didn't say they wouldn't.. but obviously it won't be universal.. there are going to be well implemented speakers with better drivers and boxes as well...

Kali are *budget* monitors

in real listening the difference between a kali and a genelec wont be as large as the graphs would indicate, for example the 8331A is like 4x the price but doesn't necessarily get louder.

 

[TheDichotomist]

in real listening the difference between a kali and a genelec wont be as large as the graphs would indicate, for example the 8331A is like 4x the price but doesn't necessarily get louder.

I don't think TW is disputing that. Indeed, their last reply seems to have reaffirmed their understanding of diminishing returns in most practical applications. ^^ My only real concern with the kali's as far as frequency response goes, is that dip from 8-12KHz, and the difficulty in finding a succinct answer to just how far off axis I can listen in order to flatten that out. In this review, Erin suggests 10-20 degrees, and IMO, looking at the data, it seems like placing these monitors horizontally and gently toeing them out a few degrees would actually perform quite well... However, in the IN-5 review, he suggests moving off axis won't really help. The speakers are nearly identical so I'm not sure why that advice would be different between the two.

There's actually a video on youtube of a music producer "Warren Huart" comparing these kali's directly to his genelec monitors and he seems quite happy with them (but he's a super laid back guy anyway Think he'd be happy to try mixing on a toaster oven if the music was good~ )

 

[voodooless]

my memory tells me the original (pioneer) aa scored a 5.4 (or so) and the bmr was scored (at that time ) at 5.3

Even if that were the case, that diffrence is squarely within the margin of error.

 

[Jiraya369]

I don't think TW is disputing that. Indeed, their last reply seems to have reaffirmed their understanding of diminishing returns in most practical applications. ^^ My only real concern with the kali's as far as frequency response goes, is that dip from 8-12KHz, and the difficulty in finding a succinct answer to just how far off axis I can listen in order to flatten that out. In this review, Erin suggests 10-20 degrees, and IMO, looking at the data, it seems like placing these monitors horizontally and gently toeing them out a few degrees would actually perform quite well... However, in the IN-5 review, he suggests moving off axis won't really help. The speakers are nearly identical so I'm not sure why that advice would be different between the two.

There's actually a video on youtube of a music producer "Warren Huart" comparing these kali's directly to his genelec monitors and he seems quite happy with them (but he's a super laid back guy anyway Think he'd be happy to try mixing on a toaster oven if the music was good~ )

as someone who's mixed stuff (as a hobbyist), you just need a neutral pair of speakers that get loud enough for you without distorting the sound enough to ruin your perception of the mix.

the dip wont go away with a toe in/out but the response would get smoother and it shouldnt be bothersome, that's the thing with coaxials their response is smoother off axis.

Main issue with the kali would be imaging. In terms of tonality it's amazing except for some minor treble weirdness and even then it's mostly seen on graphs.

 

[tw 2022]

Even if that were the case, that diffrence is squarely within the margin of error.

that's kind of my point.. price vs. preference score vs actual preference is very subjective ... and fluid based on bias...

 

[TheDichotomist]

as someone who's mixed stuff (as a hobbyist), you just need a neutral pair of speakers that get loud enough for you without distorting the sound enough to ruin your perception of the mix.

the dip wont go away with a toe in/out but the response would get smoother and it shouldnt be bothersome, that's the thing with coaxials their response is smoother off axis.

Main issue with the kali would be imaging. In terms of tonality it's amazing except for some minor treble weirdness and even then it's mostly seen on graphs.

We're in agreement there.... Curious, what's wrong with the kali's imaging?

 

[tw 2022]

Erin suggests 10-20 degrees, and IMO, looking at the data, it seems like placing these monitors horizontally and gently toeing them out a few degrees would actually perform quite well... However, in the IN-5 review, he suggests moving off axis won't really help. The speakers are nearly identical so I'm not sure why that advice would be different between the two.

go back and watch the reviews again, maybe even twice .. sometimes you'll pick up slight differences in his evaluation you missed before... I do this occasionally...

 

[tw 2022]

Lol. xD Nothing about that basic setup sounds basic to me -- name dropping Mr Murphy like that says those speakers would absolutely compete with $1k setups on sheer reputation alone. Probably wipe the floor with these Kali's.

I'm just looking for a studio monitor upgrade I won't have to replace for another couple decades. (build quality notwithstanding) Thought these would be it, but despite being great "for the price" its sounding like people who have heard better would hesitate to call them "great, full stop. " .... Although FWIW, you did reiterate my argument that these, and indeed most speakers, should be surprisingly good operating within their dynamic range, when setup with care.

I think the kali's are *probably* very good for the price in the correct set up.. depending on the return policy: don't be afraid to test them out for yourself, the only way to tell for sure is either know your preferences very well and read the data and to get there you need to hear what you like vs what you don't like as much... bottom line: I think (at this site and others) there is much pearl clutching and anxiety over choices, it happens .. don't be afraid to order and see for yourself...

 

[Jiraya369]

We're in agreement there.... Curious, what's wrong with the kali's imaging?

not as precise as genelec check out the horizontal directivity

perhaps toe-ing out would even the response out and make it smooth? but still genelec, neumann and kef are masters of directivity/imaging. Not the widest but the deepest soundstage.

 

[TheDichotomist]

not as precise as genelec check out the horizontal directivity

perhaps toe-ing out would even the response out and make it smooth? but still genelec, neumann and kef are masters of directivity/imaging. Not the widest but the deepest soundstage.

Looking at the data in this review, yeah... the dip smooths out. It's in the air band above where I'm normally even concerned with directivity. But off axis horizontally and vertically response smooths out, and the farther off axis you go, the duller the reflections seem to get. The in room response seems to be a moderately flat trend -- good enough for government money -- which theoretically one could correct or at least augment with light EQ. . . I've been comparing this to the KH 310 and comparing the general trends and.... They're not that different for being 3k apart in price. Considering I plan to use room measurements, treatment, and eventually corrective EQ. No substitute for physical geometry aiding directivity and imaging, but for near field direct on/near axis listening... I dunno.

I'm a lot less concerned with "imaging" than I am with the frequency response balance and ability to cleanly represent dynamics. I'm not doing film sound design where imaging would probably be paramount.

 

[Jiraya369]

Looking at the data in this review, yeah... the dip smooths out. It's in the air band above where I'm normally even concerned with directivity. But off axis horizontally and vertically response smooths out, and the farther off axis you go, the duller the reflections seem to get. The in room response seems to be a moderately flat trend -- good enough for government money -- which theoretically one could correct or at least augment with light EQ. . . I've been comparing this to the KH 310 and comparing the general trends and.... They're not that different for being 3k apart in price. Considering I plan to use room measurements, treatment, and eventually corrective EQ. No substitute for physical geometry aiding directivity and imaging, but for near field direct on/near axis listening... I dunno.

I'm a lot less concerned with "imaging" than I am with the frequency response balance and ability to cleanly represent dynamics. I'm not doing film sound design where imaging would probably be paramount.

if that's the case then the Kali is damn near perfect except for super loud listening with super deep bass, neumann and genelec make more mature products but that's it. if the kali gets loud enough for you and you're happy with the low end, it's hard to find much fault.

 

[TheDichotomist]

if that's the case then the Kali is damn near perfect except for super loud listening with super deep bass, neumann and genelec make more mature products but that's it. if the kali gets loud enough for you and you're happy with the low end, it's hard to find much fault.

We haven't discussed low end so far. This is new... What's wrong with the low-end? Don't tell me it's because it's a ported speaker and hold up that AP Mastering guy's video on the topic.

My intention was to get kali's sub sometime later, or something better if it comes along and use that to drive everything below 80Hz... Now, if this speaker is boxy and gross sounding, that's a different sort of lowish end problem! One I'm honestly terrified I'll encounter with this speaker. >.< Crude mic'd comparisons all paint a veiled and boomy picture of the IN speakers. These "comparisons," are usually just speakers on a desk or floor stands, and a mic at someone's listening position, in order to crudely approximate the speaker's impulse response (it doesn't work that well in my opinion, but the results have frightened me nonetheless!~ ^^;.) Erin's anechoically created impulse response swapping method is a much better version of that test, but it isn't available for his entire review catalogue. . . Actually, I wonder if he'd mind taking old data and making impulses from that. That would be heaps cool!

 

[Jiraya369]

We haven't discussed low end so far. This is new... What's wrong with the low-end? Don't tell me it's because it's a ported speaker and hold up that AP Mastering guy's video on the topic.

My intention was to get kali's sub sometime later, or something better if it comes along and use that to drive everything below 80Hz... Now, if this speaker is boxy and gross sounding, that's a different sort of lowish end problem! One I'm honestly terrified I'll encounter with this speaker. >.< Crude mic'd comparisons all paint a veiled and boomy picture of the IN speakers. These "comparisons," are usually just speakers on a desk or floor stands, and a mic at someone's listening position, in order to crudely approximate the speaker's impulse response (it doesn't work that well in my opinion, but the results have frightened me nonetheless!~ ^^;.) Erin's anechoically created impulse response swapping method is a much better version of that test, but it isn't available for his entire review catalogue. . . Actually, I wonder if he'd mind taking old data and making impulses from that. That would be heaps cool!

My point was don't expect 40 hz playback at 100 db or something lol

 

[TheDichotomist]

My point was don't expect 40 hz playback at 100 db or something lol

:3 :3 :3 Dats what the sub is for (later)... being the worst neighbor I possibly can be!~ (nah, I hate listening super duper loud.)

 

[Ultrasonic]

if that's the case then the Kali is damn near perfect except for super loud listening with super deep bass, neumann and genelec make more mature products but that's it. if the kali gets loud enough for you and you're happy with the low end, it's hard to find much fault.

Even at 86 dB the distortion levels of the IN-8 v2 are not hard to beat, and not just in the low bass region. It's a decent speaker for the money but it's not 'perfect'.

(I bought a pair and returned them for context but I was assessing them for home music playback rather than studio use.)

 

[TheDichotomist]

Even at 86 dB the distortion levels of the IN-8 v2 are not hard to beat, and not just in the low bass region. It's a decent speaker for the money but it's not 'perfect'.

(I bought a pair and returned them for context but I was assessing them for home music playback rather than studio use.)

Hey, if you have better neutral speakers for the price, do tell~ I'm looking for new monitoring speakers. At least in the studio monitor space, I've had a hard time finding anything that beats the distortion measurements on these kalis. So if you've got a neutral 3-way contender that doesn't require me to spend extra on an amplifier, do tell. (I was considering a kef speaker but again, needs amplification and still needed EQ. Kali's were a better value proposition. )

Also... they measure at <= 0.5% THD over 400hz at 86db @ 1 meter... That's really not bad. (I don't mean to evangelize these things, I'm genuinely just trying to find the best I can for 1k USD or less. )

 

[Jiraya369]

Even at 86 dB the distortion levels of the IN-8 v2 are not hard to beat, and not just in the low bass region. It's a decent speaker for the money but it's not 'perfect'.

(I bought a pair and returned them for context but I was assessing them for home music playback rather than studio use.)

what other coaxial with similar linearity, directivity and loudness capabilities exists?

and i said "damn near perfect", make it constant directivity and i struggle to see any glaring flaws. Pray tell, what issue did you find good sir?