Kali Audio IN-8v2 (Second Wave) 3-Way Studio Monitor Review

[Deleted member 68495]

The main reason it’s not that high is the dips on axis in the treble. I doubt it’s be that audible, especially near-field.

And no, can’t do a different score as there simply is no similar research for near-field.

Hi, I have just checked this file and it is really useful, thank you so much for sharing it (and also for creating it, if this is the case)

 

[LeonidKogan]

Has anyone compared IN-8v2 to Genelec 8030/KH120 or KEF LS50 Meta? I have a sub so LF extension is irrelevant for me. I wonder how do they compare in terms of midrange clarity/separation/soundstage. I want to get rid of my LS50M setup because of bulky amplifier and to reduce costs. I could go for used 8030C or KH120 for just a bit more than new pair of IN-8v2. I love coax design in a nearfield but I'm not sure if Kali has the quality to compete with the pricier boys.

 

[denzel200219]

Has anyone compared IN-8v2 to Genelec 8030/KH120 or KEF LS50 Meta? I have a sub so LF extension is irrelevant for me. I wonder how do they compare in terms of midrange clarity/separation/soundstage. I want to get rid of my LS50M setup because of bulky amplifier and to reduce costs. I could go for used 8030C or KH120 for just a bit more than new pair of IN-8v2. I love coax design in a nearfield but I'm not sure if Kali has the quality to compete with the pricier boys.

In theory, the Kali IN8 V2 should be close to the Genelec/Neumann in terms of midrange and tonality, but the tests have shown that it has worse tonality and Frequency response. Kali does have better bass but I recommend getting the Genelec 8030 and later a subwoofer.

 

[LeonidKogan]

@denzel200219 I have a subwoofer and tonality seems to be similar between these two, but measurements don't say anything about perceived detail, instrument separation etc. Maybe those things aren't important for producers because virtually few people mention that when discussing studio monitors, but I'm going to use them purely for listening.

 

[denzel200219]

@denzel200219 I have a subwoofer and tonality seems to be similar between these two, but measurements don't say anything about perceived detail, instrument separation etc. Maybe those things aren't important for producers because virtually few people mention that when discussing studio monitors, but I'm going to use them purely for listening.

Well If its purely for listening, you should be fine with the Kali's but for whatever its worth, Amirm appears to have prefered the Genelec in his listening tests

 

[Chromatischism]

measurements don't say anything about perceived detail, instrument separation etc

Those are captured by measurements. You have to know how and where to look.

 

[audio2920]

@LeonidKogan For me, the FR of the IN8 is perfectly fine for listening. IN8 also works amazingly well in very nearfield, likely aided by the concentric mf/hf, as you pointed out. (Not used 8030 or kh120, but I have used other models in those lines.)

I would describe the IN8 as slightly "lower resolution" than the other two, and if you look at the distortion measurements, it is worse. I think this is the closest I can get to commenting on midrange clarity. It's good, but not as good. That said, in nearfield application the concentric design is likely a win, especially if there's desk (or other vertical) bounce to consider.

I've been unlucky with *all* my used speaker purchases. I've yet to buy a used studio monitor which isn't defective in some way, or damaged in transit. I think if you're buying professional products, there's a reasonable chance they've been used as a professional tool, and thus may have been used hard for long hours, maybe with high SPL accidents sometimes occurring due to the nature of the setups and the work. So, if I were in your shoes, I'd get a new IN8 over a used Genelec/Neumann. Not for sonic reasons, but because it always becomes a headache if I try to save money by buying used monitors.

To note though, the build quality and QC of the IN8 is inferior to those two, but in my experience (I've bought 8 of them) if they are bad, they seem likely to be dead on arrival and can easily be sent back for replacement. I've not had any failures of IN8s apart from those present on arrival.

(WS12 is another story; I've owned 4, and 2 have now died within a couple of years, a 3rd is suspect and sometimes whistles, needing a "reboot" to clear it...)

 

[olymind1]

Those are captured by measurements. You have to know how and where to look.

Can you tell us what to look?

 

[oozlum]

Can you tell us what to look?

Look for some advices how to interpret meassurements data on ‘Audio Science Review’ youtube channel. Some of them are included in text reviews to watch before reading into reviews further. Hope this helps.

 

[LeonidKogan]

I've had Kalis IN8 v1 for a couple of days (the store sent me the OG instead of v2) and I was amazed by its bass' depth and almost physical feeling, something my tiny REL T/Zero could not achieve with LS50 Meta. The Kalis were also much more dynamic/energetic and I think the bass response might be the reason here.
I would like to transition to actives and I was looking at Neumann KH120 II - I compared their graphs against IN8 v2 and if anything, Neumanns have a bit more elevated bass with essentially the same extension. Looks like Neumann squeezed every last bit of performance with this 5.25" woofer thanks to DSP, but I wonder if they can provide the same physical feeling and depth as the 8" Kalis even if measurements show similar SPL? I feel like mere cone size might matter here.
My feeling with LS50M+REL was that they had "technical" bass - the notes were there but without energy and impact. The Kalis impressed me immediately with their effortless reproduction of low end and low midrange. I can stretch my budget for Neumanns just for better clarity, build quality and (possibly) reliability over Kalis.

 

[neRok]

My feeling with LS50M+REL was that they had "technical" bass - the notes were there but without energy and impact.

Have you got a measurement mic? Whilst your REL is a tiny subwoofer that can only do so much, I wouldn't be surprised if the problem was a bad crossover setup between speakers and sub (frequency, slope and phase). You can test for proper integration with a measurement mic.

 

[strap844]

2. Yes, depending on your listening material, things may be a tad hot in the mid highs- around 5-8Khz.
Is that intentional by Kali? To give that showroom sound of "extra detail"?
If we took a sample of 10 random units; how much variation is there anyway?
It's not clear from his review whether Erin measured/listened to a single speaker, or a pair?

I thought my sample was a bit too “splashy”. And easy fix with a DSP update, should Kali choose to. But then some people might complain that speaker is flat or not exciting (neutral).

2A. Regardless, not problem for project studios to EQ out. I used two parametric notch filters, @ 4700 and 8500Hz, with a gain of -2dB and Q=6. That takes off the edge of the highs, and thus smoothens out the 2nd top octave globally (on axis, LW, ER and PW).

Hello, I can confirm that indicated 5000k-8000k area the Kalis are overkill with some passes and discs. I moved them off axis and it's better, but this is a real shame, I'm thinking about whether to keep them or not. I find it a little difficult to listen to wind instruments, mouth harp, certain piano keys, etc. Otherwise they are truly extraordinary speakers and I like them a lot. After reading this I try to apply the 2 notch filters as indicated.

 

[LeonidKogan]

Have you got a measurement mic? Whilst your REL is a tiny subwoofer that can only do so much, I wouldn't be surprised if the problem was a bad crossover setup between speakers and sub (frequency, slope and phase). You can test for proper integration with a measurement mic.

That's totally possible. When I bought UMIK-1 half a year ago I was trying to find the best placement for the sub based solely on measurements and ever since it's been sitting halfway between me and the desk on the right side. I fell it was the best place to even start with, but something is clearly wrong, because REL is rated -6db at 37Hz (about 2Hz lower than Kali), and yet I get ~10Hz more usable extension with Kalis while LS50M+Rel are gone at 48Hz. Would be easier if that stupid sub had crossover markings. Two things I have to point out:
1. BR ports were blocked on the LS50M (that's a relic of the past back when I didn't have a mic and found it easier to integrate that way), which I probably shouldn't have done because then they have no bass at all and I'm only getting a single bass source from the sub. Without REL and bungs they should hit ~45Hz with EQ.
2. I was using some bass-elevated house curve I found on the web which I'm gonna ditch because it probably only increases the difference between peaks and dips.

I had to get rid of my Hegel due to financial reasons but dual Fosi ZA3 are coming tomorrow and I'm gonna look for better sub placement. If I somehow manage to integrate it properly - great, I still feel like they are a notch above Kali IN8 v1 in terms of clarity, imaging and some refinement I can't describe, but if I keep having issues like that I'll just order IN8v2 and call it a day. Should I look for optimal spot with only sub connected to preout or together with speakers?

Below are my measurements - red is LS50M+Rel, green is Kali IN8 without sub, both after EQ.

 

[neRok]

Below are my measurements - red is LS50M+Rel, green is Kali IN8 without sub

The sub is working, you can see its output of 75dB at 25Hz. The Kali don't make that much bass that low. The benefit to running only speakers (like when you tested the Kali) is that all the bass is coming from the 1 woofer, so it's mostly in time (disregarding what the room does to the sound), and thus you heard it around 40Hz. But I reckon your REL+KEF are out of time, so they are instead cancelling at 40Hz. I can see on the LS50M ASR review that they are about -10dB at 40Hz, so it makes sense they can do a lot of cancelling if they are not in time. Unfortunately the only timing control your system has is the little 180° phase switch on the back of the sub. Flicking it might help a bit, but maybe 90° is the optimum? You won't know without testing the sub and speakers individually using a measure with an acoustic timing ref. The other problem is that you might actually be out more than 1/2 cycle, but 2 or 3 cycles or something (you should be able to see this on the other tabs in REW if you know what you're looking for). Ported speakers/subs are notorious for this because the port introduces delay, and their high pass filter that is to protect the driver from over-excursion at the tuning frequency also introduces delay (thus plugging the port will not negate all the delay). And when they are that far delayed, it smears the bass and reduces the impact, even though the SPL in REW looks decent. When you get the impulses lined up (ie, get the 2 in time), it sounds much better. How do you properly get them in time you might ask? Well that's why devices like MiniDSP 2x4HD were invented, to take a normal 2chan signal and apply DSP so you now have at least 3 individual outputs (2 speakers, 1 sub). I use my computer as the source and output to a 4chan interface, so that's how I get an individual signal for the sub vs the speakers. You can get subs that have DSP and delay feature built in, like I believe SVS subs do (you send source signal to the sub, and it outputs a modified signal to the speakers). Or some speakers+subs from the same company can have a setting that makes them work together perfectly, and I'm pretty sure Neumann can do that (coz you mentioned them).

Anyway, here's some stuff I posted to help someone else do their alignment: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...opinion-on-my-measurements.47538/post-1714490

I don't know how you will fix your timing with what you have though, so it might all be moot. But to do individual measures with acoustic timing ref, I sweep the speakers with the sub muted. Then I turn the sub on, start its sweep so the speaker goes "tweet", then quickly mute the speaker before the sub sweeps, then wait a second or 2 longer, then un-mute the speaker for the 2nd "tweet".

Oh and last point, the null just above 100Hz is a room problem and would be hurting your bass, and its probably to do with either your sitting position vs the front or rear wall (maybe ceiling), OR the speakers position to the front wall (presuming you tested Kali in the same spot as the KEF). There's a small room related peak at ~90Hz, so if you tweak one of those other positions you might be able to move the 100Hz null close to the 90Hz peak and get an entirely different result.

 

[LeonidKogan]

@neRok thanks for your advices, I got the Fosi amps yesterday and for now I moved sub under my desk and placed it exactly in the center between the speakers, that's what I got with EQ. Besides two narrow dips at 197Hz and 395 Hz I'm quite impressed given there is no treatment at all in my room. I guess one major dip is something I have to live with. I think 800Hz and 1.77Hz is fixable with EQ too.

 

[decryption]

I have a pair of LP-8 v2 in my office as general/daily listening speakers on stands and love them, so keen to get them into my home cinema to replace some 25 year old speakers! Anyone running these in a home cinema type setup? Would be getting 3x of the IN-8 v2 as fronts and 2x IN-5 as rears. I have a few questions:

1. Can I put the IN-8 V2 horizontally for my centre with no ill effects? That way I can raise it up higher under my screen.

2. I assume listening to these a little off-axis is actually fine thanks to the coaxial drivers?

3. My AVR has pre-outs, but they are unbalanced outputs. The cable run for the surround speakers would be around 15m each - should I use a DI box to convert this to XLR/balanced? If so, would the DI box colour or alter the sound at all? They should be transparent, right?

4. The price difference between the IN-8 v2 and IN-5 isn't much here in Australia ($645 vs $799) so should I just get 5x IN-8 v2 and have all the speakers matching? Might be useful for Dirac Live ART when that comes out on Denon/Marantz amps later this year?

 

[Ciobi69]

I have a pair of LP-8 v2 in my office as general/daily listening speakers on stands and love them, so keen to get them into my home cinema to replace some 25 year old speakers! Anyone running these in a home cinema type setup? Would be getting 3x of the IN-8 v2 as fronts and 2x IN-5 as rears. I have a few questions:

1. Can I put the IN-8 V2 horizontally for my centre with no ill effects? That way I can raise it up higher under my screen.

2. I assume listening to these a little off-axis is actually fine thanks to the coaxial drivers?

3. My AVR has pre-outs, but they are unbalanced outputs. The cable run for the surround speakers would be around 15m each - should I use a DI box to convert this to XLR/balanced? If so, would the DI box colour or alter the sound at all? They should be transparent, right?

4. The price difference between the IN-8 v2 and IN-5 isn't much here in Australia ($645 vs $799) so should I just get 5x IN-8 v2 and have all the speakers matching? Might be useful for Dirac Live ART when that comes out on Denon/Marantz amps later this year?

Yes the 8v2 are very fine what’s your room dimension and listening distance ?

 

[LeonidKogan]

I have a pair of LP-8 v2 in my office as general/daily listening speakers on stands and love them, so keen to get them into my home cinema to replace some 25 year old speakers! Anyone running these in a home cinema type setup? Would be getting 3x of the IN-8 v2 as fronts and 2x IN-5 as rears. I have a few questions:

1. Can I put the IN-8 V2 horizontally for my centre with no ill effects? That way I can raise it up higher under my screen.

2. I assume listening to these a little off-axis is actually fine thanks to the coaxial drivers?

3. My AVR has pre-outs, but they are unbalanced outputs. The cable run for the surround speakers would be around 15m each - should I use a DI box to convert this to XLR/balanced? If so, would the DI box colour or alter the sound at all? They should be transparent, right?

4. The price difference between the IN-8 v2 and IN-5 isn't much here in Australia ($645 vs $799) so should I just get 5x IN-8 v2 and have all the speakers matching? Might be useful for Dirac Live ART when that comes out on Denon/Marantz amps later this year?

1. Theoretically, yes. Horizontal placemenent didn't work on my desk tho, I was getting unfixable large dips and peaks, don't know what caused the FR to go crazy so much. I have to experiment more with lifting the speakers higher to see whether that was caused by desk reflections. So it might work or not for you.
2. Yes it's fine. They are not all that strict about listening position.
4. I've seen it's common to go for smaller speaker for rears, if it's possible I'd go for as many larger speakers as you can fit with such small price difference.

 

[decryption]

Yes the 8v2 are very fine what’s your room dimension and listening distance ?

4.2m wide, 5.5m long, 2.7m high

 

[Ciobi69]

Yes they are fine then I used them in my front for my room with volume up to -5 in my avr , loud , they perform good, one of the best quality price speaker o ever bought