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Kali audio IN-8 V2 measurements

Rednaxela

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Am I the only one feeling a bit uncomfortable about what's going on here?

Isn't Kali Audio one of these very few brands that would deserve a little bit more care, maybe even help, when things like these arise?

Can we please take a moment to reflect on what we are truly after with this thread?

Thank you.
 

ernestcarl

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Am I the only one feeling a bit uncomfortable about what's going on here?

Isn't Kali Audio one of these very few brands that would deserve a little bit more care, maybe even help, when things like these arise?

Can we please take a moment to reflect on what we are truly after with this thread?

Thank you.

Hmmn... I'm not "uncomfortable", but rather very curious as to the nature of the distortion. There simply aren't many coax speakers that have been measured as well as the Kalis (spinorama-wise), but also priced so darned low that I can't myself be too critical of this kind of result.

This does make me think that the IN-5 may be the better value speaker here after all if this new found "flaw" is indeed persistent in the whole coax line-up.
 
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Nuyes

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If @Nuyes is able to track down the root of the problem, we can only hope a fix is DIY'able. :)

Here's today's news.
The owner of this speaker allowed me to disassemble.

Fortunately, the Kali speaker has a structure that is easy to take apart.

My family and I have just finished quarantine due to COVID-19, but where I live, it is currently raining a lot and recovering from the damage.

Therefore, I will directly experiment with the problem of this speaker and unit this Thursday in Korean time.



And I have an aluminum stand for measuring speaker drivers, so I'll be able to experiment in a variety of ways.

adsf.jpeg






If this is a problem that can be solved simply through DIY, such as internal assembly, it would be very fortunate.

However, if the same problem appears in the driver-only experiment, there is nothing more we can do.
 

thin bLue

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Additional info
Korean time=SEOUL, TOKYO=KST=JST=UTC/GMT +9

Washington, DC-> UTC/GMT -4
 

SDC

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@Nuyes are we reading correctly that you're getting 120+ dB at 1 meter in some of those measurements? So far we aren't able to recreate the issue, so it would help if you could clarify your test procedure. What voltage is going into the speakers?

120+ is not 1 meter. It is just mic being close to the driver. Nuy mentioned he heard problems when he was measureing [email protected] and other Korean users they just turned the volume high enough, as they don't have calibrater.
 
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Nuyes

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@Nuyes are we reading correctly that you're getting 120+ dB at 1 meter in some of those measurements? So far we aren't able to recreate the issue, so it would help if you could clarify your test procedure. What voltage is going into the speakers?
Thank you for your answer.

Measurement data over 120 dB is a nearfield measurement, not a meter.
And if I remember correctly, it was measured at [0.435 V].

I am currently preparing to record this problem in the 200-400 Hz section and present the correct SPL (1 m) in each recording file.
 
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Nuyes

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According to what I checked, the SPL where the problem of each frequency starts to be audible in the sample I have is as follows.


233hz / 77.9dB SPL
296hz / 75.0dB SPL
300hz / 79.2dB SPL
355hs / 80.5dB SPL



And the coaxial driver assembly inside this speaker had this separate space.




in8_01.jpg





in8_02.jpg



To diagnose this problem in detail, I placed it as above and tested it by changing various conditions.

However, the problem was the same if only the woofer driver was operated alone or, on the contrary, the coaxial driver was operated alone.

So in my opinion, it's highly likely that this isn't a unit problem.
The assembly or wiring condition of the internal structure is expected to be the cause of the problem.

(Or maybe it's a problem with the plastic enclosing the coaxial unit.)


And before I took this speaker apart, I recorded it all to tell you about it, and the recording was done on-axis 10cm from the front baffle.

I realized it belatedly, but as it may not be a direct problem with the unit...
Proximity recording samples did not easily reveal the problem because the percentage of output signals was high compared to the noise currently being revealed.

I will prepare a microphone for checking SPL and a microphone for recording problems separately and compare them.

And now, we have ordered a long cross screwdriver for the disassembly of the coaxial assembly.



@KaliAudio_Official , could you please test the above mentioned frequencys and SPLs (or higher)?
 

KaliAudio_Official

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According to what I checked, the SPL where the problem of each frequency starts to be audible in the sample I have is as follows.


233hz / 77.9dB SPL
296hz / 75.0dB SPL
300hz / 79.2dB SPL
355hs / 80.5dB SPL



And the coaxial driver assembly inside this speaker had this separate space.




View attachment 223615




View attachment 223616


To diagnose this problem in detail, I placed it as above and tested it by changing various conditions.

However, the problem was the same if only the woofer driver was operated alone or, on the contrary, the coaxial driver was operated alone.

So in my opinion, it's highly likely that this isn't a unit problem.
The assembly or wiring condition of the internal structure is expected to be the cause of the problem.

(Or maybe it's a problem with the plastic enclosing the coaxial unit.)


And before I took this speaker apart, I recorded it all to tell you about it, and the recording was done on-axis 10cm from the front baffle.

I realized it belatedly, but as it may not be a direct problem with the unit...
Proximity recording samples did not easily reveal the problem because the percentage of output signals was high compared to the noise currently being revealed.

I will prepare a microphone for checking SPL and a microphone for recording problems separately and compare them.

And now, we have ordered a long cross screwdriver for the disassembly of the coaxial assembly.



@KaliAudio_Official , could you please test the above mentioned frequencys and SPLs (or higher)
Looking at the data you posted here, and with the help of a translator to look at your Cuonet post, it looks like you're experiencing a fairly common buzz. Basically something in the cabinet wasn't perfectly secured, which is why you're getting the buzz. If you open up a case with customer service, they would recommend replacing the speaker, which should solve the issue. This sort of manufacturing defect can happen, and it usually isn't indicative of a design flaw. We do look at all units that are sent back to us to evaluate if we need to change something in the construction of the speaker.
 

muslhead

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Looking at the data you posted here, and with the help of a translator to look at your Cuonet post, it looks like you're experiencing a fairly common buzz. Basically something in the cabinet wasn't perfectly secured, which is why you're getting the buzz. If you open up a case with customer service, they would recommend replacing the speaker, which should solve the issue. This sort of manufacturing defect can happen, and it usually isn't indicative of a design flaw. We do look at all units that are sent back to us to evaluate if we need to change something in the construction of the speaker.
Since you said this is a "fairly common buzz" one has to ask ... is each speaker QA'ed before shipment to screen out those that have this problem?
If not, why since it is a common problem?
IF so, you could have other problems besides the common buzz which points to a backend QA problem
 

KaliAudio_Official

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The speakers are tested before they go into the box to catch exactly this sort of buzz.

We evaluate every speaker that comes back to us for repair/replacement to make sure that we don't have QA problems, and to fix them if and when we do.

Whether it's the result of a manufacturing defect or rough handling, a buzzing speaker is the most common acoustic problem that we see, and most of them are one-off issues. If we get several units back with the same problem, we evaluate whether a process change is warranted to help mitigate that problem, but most of the time we'll see an issue once and never again. In other words, we'll get a unit back where a wire is loose. We ask "should we do more to make sure that this wire doesn't come loose?" and the answer will be "we already have a process in place to ensure that this wire doesn't come loose; THIS wire managed to come loose in spite of all that."
 
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Nuyes

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The speakers are tested before they go into the box to catch exactly this sort of buzz.

We evaluate every speaker that comes back to us for repair/replacement to make sure that we don't have QA problems, and to fix them if and when we do.

Whether it's the result of a manufacturing defect or rough handling, a buzzing speaker is the most common acoustic problem that we see, and most of them are one-off issues. If we get several units back with the same problem, we evaluate whether a process change is warranted to help mitigate that problem, but most of the time we'll see an issue once and never again. In other words, we'll get a unit back where a wire is loose. We ask "should we do more to make sure that this wire doesn't come loose?" and the answer will be "we already have a process in place to ensure that this wire doesn't come loose; THIS wire managed to come loose in spite of all that."
Thank you for your reply.

I organized the wiring inside the speaker with the owner's permission and damping it using a 1mm foam.

Then, the problem of 233hz is gone now.

Of course, other issues still remain.
Still... I'm planning to disassemble the coaxial assembly box.

Is this likely to help resolve the buzzing issue due to internal fixation?


P.S. I was truly moved by the fact that there was a manufacturer who could communicate about the product so actively.
Thank you, @KaliAudio_Official
 
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Nuyes

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Do you also detect something audible building up around 160 hz? Erin noticed some "hotness" in this area, and noticed it in his CSD graph too.

In your distortion graphs I see some rising distortion around 160 hz too.

You can find his review at https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kali_in-8v2/

Cumulative%20spectral%20decay.png
I think I missed.
It may not have actually been measured, but I didn't look at the CSD data.

But like you said, there's something around 160 Hz.
This can be found in common in some data.

I will also test the 160hz you mentioned once again.
 
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Nuyes

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I wanted to completely disassemble the speaker and proceed with the measurement, but the plastic cabinet surrounding the coaxial unit was not simply disassembleable by unscrewing it.

01.jpeg


It was a structure that could only be broken down if the black glue lump shown in the picture above was completely removed, and I decided to remove all the rest except for this part first and proceed with the test.


02.jpeg



And the test results...
No problems were found.

At least the moment it becomes clear that the coaxial unit and its structure are at no fault.


Next, I thought this might be a problem with the woofer unit frame, so I resumed the test after installing the woofer unit, but the result was the same.

There was no problem.



In the end, the cable issue mentioned by @KaliAudio_Official was judged to be the most likely situation.

I agree that the cables can gradually loosen and loosen, causing each other to buzz.



03.jpeg


So I used a '1mm eva foam' to wrap all the cables, and I used a cable tie to hold them tightly.

And then I put the speaker back together.


The problem is completely gone.
At least that's the case in the test I've.


And considering that the same problem occurred with the remaining sample of the speaker owner who sent me this speaker sample and one sample of a third party (V1)...
This seems to be an unexpectedly common symptom.

And if the way I've solved it is right, it's also a very simple problem.


Anyway, this speaker will return safely to their owners in a few days.
 

ooheadsoo

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Thanks for the troubleshooting process. Any findings on the resonance around 160hz?
 

tktran303

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Rub/fuzz is not an uncommon problem and usually manifests as high order distortion. I’m talking 5th, 6th, 7th harmonics, 9th harmonics. They are totally unrelated to the musical signal.

The thing is, they are easily audible to the human ear. You don’t need a Klippel, but you need to know what to see if you’re measuring your speaker (usually with ear muffs on- who can bear that brrrrrrzzzzzup after the n-th time?)

And one must not lump all higher order distortion together.

Reference:
What can happen when a driver is “fixed” to the baffle without a vibration absorbing gasket:



9FE36584-62E4-4BE5-8A3A-8D054DBF9776.jpeg


C1C73717-A0B4-4823-B3AB-15BFB71B8FD1.jpeg


It doesn’t occur to all samples.

I wonder whether they were products purchased locally? I bought mine before they were available locally. So it had come all the way from Germany to Australia.
 
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