Kali Audio IN-8 Studio Monitor Review

[Bruce Morgen]

Um, yes... Which ones?

Anyway, measurement graphs aside - I can say I've done extensive direct A-B comparisons between the brilliant Presonus Sceptre S8 (2-way coaxial), the Kali IN-8 (3-way semi-coaxial) and the KRK 10-3 (3-way non-coaxial), among others. Distance was at 1.5 metres in a well-controlled room, across a wide range of material.

I already mentioned the KRK 10-3 above, but I can say that the IN-8 and Presonus Sceptre S8 were both similiarly accurate, with the IN-8 having a slight edge in mid-range detail, albeit with a noticeable noise floor (overrated by many, not an issue for me).
Both monitors are excellent and reliable. The Presonus Sceptres have achieved classic status for very good reason.

AFAIK only the original IN-8 -- the one with the shiny woofer cone -- has a significant noise floor issue. The "2nd Wave" upgrade supposedly fixes that by using "new and improved" TI silicon.

 

[dominikz]

Thats not how math works.

Ofcourse a zoomed chart reveals bigger visual representation between the speakers, but the numbers are absolute and the same. And this chart reveals a simple fact: that above 300hz there's rarely more than a 5 db difference except for a few dips.

You are of course correct. But I'd make two additional notes:
1) Humans are quite sensitive to low-Q frequency response deviations. A few dB difference is in that case very audible. Much more so than narrow, high-Q resonances.
2) In-room steady-state measurements don't reflect 100% what is heard by humans. Research indicates that above the transition frequency people hear more of the direct sound (i.e. similar to anechoic response). How much (and in which way exactly) reflections impact the percerption of loudspeaker tonality is to my knowledge not fully settled.

 

[thewas]

You are of course correct. But I'd make two additional notes:
1) Humans are quite sensitive to low-Q frequency response deviations. A few dB difference is in that case very audible. Much more so than narrow, high-Q resonances.
2) In-room steady-state measurements don't reflect 100% what is heard by humans. Research indicates that above the transition frequency people hear more of the direct sound (i.e. similar to anechoic response). How much (and in which way exactly) reflections impact the percerption of loudspeaker tonality is to my knowledge not fully settled.

Both correct, to visualise the first better often psychoacoustic smoothing can be used which smoothens high-Q deviations.

 

[Slyman]

You are of course correct. But I'd make two additional notes:
1) Humans are quite sensitive to low-Q frequency response deviations. A few dB difference is in that case very audible. Much more so than narrow, high-Q resonances.
2) In-room steady-state measurements don't reflect 100% what is heard by humans. Research indicates that above the transition frequency people hear more of the direct sound (i.e. similar to anechoic response). How much (and in which way exactly) reflections impact the percerption of loudspeaker tonality is to my knowledge not fully settled.

Both correct, to visualise the first better often psychoacoustic smoothing can be used which smoothens high-Q deviations.

Indeed. Great comments. Also makes sense the higher the frequency the smaller the wavelength. At 1000hz+ you're hearing the entire wavelength before it hits the room (speaking of anechoic).

 

[Allank]

How are they 0.5m away ? Its the minimum listening distance of the in8 and the in5 is 0.3m..
My friend hesitate between the in8 or in5 and they are more or less the best in his price range but he cannot order a few to test them

I have the in-8 v2's at triangulated at 115 cm --- So not quite 0.5m .. They are fantastic. I am in a highly treated studio - and have SVS for picking up the range...

At 0.5m, they should be fine, but they will be very imposing.

 

[Electric_Haggis]

I have the in-8 v2's at triangulated at 115 cm --- So not quite 0.5m .. They are fantastic. I am in a highly treated studio - and have SVS for picking up the range...

At 0.5m, they should be fine, but they will be very imposing.

I have to admit that I like "imposing"

Distance vs diaphragm size = presence.
(which is why I also have the Presonus StudioLive 315ai as my front surround trio)

I'd just add that, from my listening tests with the Kali IN-8, moving back & forth between my usual distance of around 0.5m and mid-field - I wouldn't be fretting or stressing too much about the inaccuracies that would seem to be rather over-hyped in some posts above!

 

[Allank]

I have to admit that I like "imposing"

Distance vs diaphragm size = presence.
(which is why I also have the Presonus StudioLive 315ai as my front surround trio)

I'd just add that, from my listening tests with the Kali IN8, moving back & forth between my usual distance of around 0.5m and mid-field - I wouldn't be fretting or stressing too much about the inaccuracies that would seem to be rather over-hyped above.

Yep...

There's a comment that the initial pair Amir had were faulty. The review and measurements from Erin's Audio corner were much more positive. I also think there's a lot of confirmation bias, people don't want to believe that speakers this cheap could be that good.
Mike Borza had them as his main mastering speakers until he built his new studio.... They are still his main monitors in his studio B.

I have the v2s, and my in room measurements and experience are very good. That being said, I still spent time improving the treatment and the result has improved over time.

My mastering business is still part time (but I'm in tech, so who knows I may be full time soon)... So I've done 100s of songs in 20 months in these (as opposed to a month like Mr Borza).... However, I get people coming back every month. Sure, I'd love some Neumann KH 420's or Kii 3's.... But I'll wait till I'm full time and have built a bigger room. The Kali's are up to the job, at least in my room (with an SVS sub, soon expanding to 2)

People very often forget though when measuring speakers you are actually measuring a system and the room is more influential than the speakers themselves. Then position in the room is also highly influential. Even in the best treated and designed room, if you get the listening position wrong and then speaker placement a pair of ATCs may sound no better than a pair of Yamaha's.

In mastering forums most of the older experienced engineers will recommend that the order of getting monitoring right is, room (including position), speakers and then DAC. (And don't even bother with analog mastering chains until you have all of the above sorted out first)

 

[Electric_Haggis]

In mastering forums most of the older experienced engineers will recommend that the order of getting monitoring right is, room (including position), speakers and then DAC. (And don't even bother with analog mastering chains until you have all of the above sorted out first)

Yep. WORD, right there.

 

[Hexspa]

For resolution of modal issues, I don't recommend broad-band bass traps, as they don't fix the problems, they just attenuate bass. (Then you are filling in holes with EQ as opposed to cutting peaks. This directly reduces your headroom.)

If you are left with a speaker position with one or more cancellations, consider using a tuned bass trap to attenuate that frequency at a boundary where the resonance is most intense. by attenuating the mode, you will actually fill in the null.

Once the room issues are dealt with and the loudspeakers are in the right place, then you can use EQ to pull down resonant peaks and finish optimization. The video shows a rapid and repeatable method for the required spatial average measurements. I have data to show that this method is comparable to an average of 32 static microphone positions in the same volume.

Amir also has a good article on optimization at https://www.jblsynthesis.com/about/acoustics.html

What do you mean broadband bass traps don’t “fix the problem”? Of course they “just attenuate bass” just like the tuned resonators that you recommend. And you go on to say “then you are filling holes with EQ” as though this is part and parcel with deploying frictional absorption which it is not.

Broadband bass traps are just like tuned ones except they are effective over a broader range of frequencies and work faster. Their only disadvantage is they need to be relatively thick to fully dampen the lowest frequencies. Even so, coverage beats thickness so with a great enough quantity of even 4” rigid absorbers, you can make a substantial improvement down to 63Hz; details contingent on room dimensions and materials. It’s a myth you need super thick frictional absorbers for two reasons: the first I just mentioned and second is that published standards by the EBU and others only specify decay times of listening rooms down to 63Hz.

Broadband bass traps reduce modal ringing which in turn lessens the effect of modal nulls - just as tuned absorbers do. I don’t have any tuned absorbers yet I have a pretty flat bass response and zero boosting of nulls with EQ - only whatever is created automatically with REW.

SPL response is primarily a function of speaker design and placement, which you mentioned, as well as listening postion but the complex interaction of room reflections - consequently nulls - has many times over been shown to be improved drastically by broadband absorption.

So broadband absorbers are established as effective against modal ringing and, to a lesser extent flattening SPL (just like tuned absorbers), but please define the “problem” that broadband absorbers don’t fix because I’m not sure how many more problems a passive absorber can solve.

 

[Haskil]

I bought a pair to see what it's like... They arrived yesterday...

Quickly installed, connected via RCA to a Topping DX 3 Pro and via BT to an iPhone (don't knock me!): j I listened to a few excerpts. They were very cold out of the box, so I stopped and waited for them to warm up in the house.

The result is good, the sound is clean, extended in frequencies downwards and upwards... I find this Kali IN 8 curiously a little directive, but I was not well installed and neither were they.

Today, I'm starting to use them more seriously: I take out a Harman Kardon 1.1 analog preamp with XLR outputs, I set them up seriously and I listen. But we can already see that what comes out is clean, with beautiful timbres and well-layered sound plans.

For 778 euros per pair delivered to the house... it's impressive...

 

[Whatever18]

I am gathering info/reviews regarding ''inexpensive'' studio monitors 'cause I want to buy a pair and and I am really surprised by this bad review. I watched this video comparison of the Kali IN 8 vs Kali LP-6 yesterday and the IN-8 sounds way better to me, better separation and better clarity, seems like a proper studio monitor while the LP-6 seems to be too ''muddled'' for that kind of work, the guy who made the video also agrees, yet the LP-6 scored well here while the IN-8 scored badly, uh. I know that judging the sound quality of a speaker from a youtube video is iffy but the owner also agrees with my subjective listening impression.

 

[NTK]

I am gathering info/reviews regarding ''inexpensive'' studio monitors 'cause I want to buy a pair and and I am really surprised by this bad review. I watched this video comparison of the Kali IN 8 vs Kali LP-6 yesterday and the IN-8 sounds way better to me, better separation and better clarity, seems like a proper studio monitor while the LP-6 seems to be too ''muddled'' for that kind of work, the guy who made the video also agrees, yet the LP-6 scored well here while the IN-8 scored badly, uh. I know that judging the sound quality of a speaker from a youtube video is iffy but the owner also agrees with my subjective listening impression.

The sample Amir tested was defective. Therefore its performance should not be considered representative, though it didn't reflect well on the product quality of Kali, at least at the time this speaker was tested. See post:

Kali Audio IN-8 Studio Monitor Review

thank you @napilopez for your response. I'm waiting for the retest results because i want to do a multichannel setup 7.4.4 with these or the presonus sceptre s8.

www.audiosciencereview.com

[Edit] Here are Amir's measurements and comments of a second (non-defective) sample.

Kali Audio IN-8 Studio Monitor Review

thank you @napilopez for your response. I'm waiting for the retest results because i want to do a multichannel setup 7.4.4 with these or the presonus sceptre s8.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Amir's revised conclusion:

...
Conclusion
Seems like the mystery is resolved. The Kali IN-8 is indeed a well-designed speaker when it is not broken. I am relieved I did not like the sound of the broken one.

Now someone needs to buy this speaker from me so that I can use the money to eat lunch tomorrow. No, it is not at a discount. It is the only Kali IN-8 with $100,000 measurement data!

I will link the review post to this one.

 

[Ellebob]

We carry Kali where I work, so I get to test them and take them home and do comparisons. I like the LP-6/8 and if comparing them to speakers in their price range I would probably give them the edge. Like the LP-8 to the LSR-308 comparison, it was close and I would be happy with either. The IN-5/8 is definitely a noticeable step up regardless what the score is. These punch above their price point. We compared the IN-5 to the Kef R3 and everyone preferred the Kali. I bought a pair of IN-5s for myself, that says something. I don't often change speakers in my home, especially because I can bring something home and test it for a while. So, a lot of equipment gets tried in my home. Would I rather have a KH120 II or Genelec 8040? Sure but they are twice the price. I think that is the next level above these. YMMV.

 

[Haskil]

J'en ai acheté une paire pour voir à quoi ça ressemble... Ils sont arrivés hier...

Vite installé, connecté en RCA à un Topping DX 3 Pro et en BT à un iPhone (ne me frappez pas !) : j'en ai écouté quelques extraits. Ils étaient très froids hors de la boîte, alors je me suis arrêté et j'ai attendu qu'ils se réchauffent dans la maison.

Le résultat est bon, le son est propre, étendu en fréquences vers le bas et vers le haut... Je trouve ce Kali IN 8 curieusement un peu directif, mais je n'étais pas bien installé et eux non plus.

Aujourd'hui, je commence à les utiliser plus sérieusement : je sors un préampli analogique Harman Kardon 1.1 avec sorties XLR, je les configure sérieusement et j'écoute. Mais on voit déjà que ce qui en ressort est propre, avec de beaux timbres et des plans sonores bien superposés.

Pour 778 euros la paire livrée à domicile... c'est impressionnant...

I answer myself. so I installed the kali in 8 v2 correctly... but with the tweeter at the bottom and the woofer at the top to have them at the level of my ears when I'm slumped in my chair.



I stored the unused harman kardon 1.0 signature preamp for a long time: it had a mains hum and I hear its mains power buzzing when I put my ear to the box... Under warranty, it had been replaced because it was burnt out. ..



And so I put a TACT 2.2 (Corrections used in By Pass). I installed the Topping drivers... and I drive as a youth... Not yet installed CD players with coaxial output. But I'm going to take one out of a box...



Three days of varied listening, iTunes, Audirvana and Qobuz mainly classical music, some of which I have known very well for a long time and which I listen to in my living room on large Focal-Divatech MC 210 prime time monitors which are really excellent... let's say that these Kali IN 8 V2s are absolutely remarkable: going from large passives to small actives, there is no frustration.



The Kali IN 8 are clear, precise in stereo reproduction, the timbres reproduced are varied, no harshness, no clinical character. Outstanding. If the bass is relatively discreet, it is clear and sometimes surprising when there is actually some in the recording. If reliability is a must: this speaker is an incredible deal.



I wanted to buy Genelec 8841 or 8851... and I wanted to try the Kali to see what they did after reading the BE here and on Erin and reading the comments here from the guys who own them alongside the Genelec... even if that means I'm giving them to my nephew who has a small apartment and who likes rock... but I'm scratching my head... the Genelecs are undoubtedly better, the measurements say so, but... the Kali IN8 V2 are so good that. ..



I think I'm going to buy 2 small Kali subwoofers, but its two side speakers make placement complicated in a room... But I have an old Yamaha subwoofer lying around (YST SW 200). I'm going to try it with it to see... So I'm going to remove the microphone, the laptop under XP kept to operate the TACT and integrate this subwoofer thanks to the active filter of the Tact and equalize everything.. (Nothing but Thinking about it gives me a headache because the ergonomics of the Tact are not ideal... and it hasn't been used for 10 years!) In any case, its ADC seemed transparent to me. ..

 

[AudioJester]

Would I rather have a KH120 II or Genelec 8040?

I have IN5, KH120 (original) and Genelec 8040b.
If the IN5 gets loud enough in your application you are only missing out on a bit of bass extension - a subwoofer more than makes up for this

 

[feitaishi]

I have IN5, KH120 (original) and Genelec 8040b.
If the IN5 gets loud enough in your application you are only missing out on a bit of bass extension - a subwoofer more than makes up for this

Do you think in5 has more detail in the midrange compared to kh120?

 

[oozlum]

Do you think in5 has more detail in the midrange compared to kh120?

Unlikely.

“My one criticism of the IN‑5 is that it shows a degree of coloration towards the lower end of the midrange, and that I suspect is associated with its unbraced and not massively rigid MDF cabinet. The slightly mid‑emphasised tonal balance actually helps to mask the coloration to some extent, although exposed male voices and some orchestral instruments (cello in particular) pick it out and can sound slightly thick and boxy, especially as volume levels increase. However, that’s a quirk that I think could be learned and steered around. And, again, at the IN‑5’s price, a mild dose of midrange coloration is very far from a deal breaker.” (source)