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Kali Audio IN-5 vs. Adam Audio A5x vs. Adam Audio T5V

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Jungle Child

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Sorry no. I have JBL 305P MKII and Genelec 8040B's.

I love my Genelec, of course! :cool:

As an upgrade pick, I'm going to point you to...Genelec 8030C's for US$1400/pair...but I understand you're working with a budget.
Here's what you get for US$1400/pair:
View attachment 132133
If that's not beautiful, I don't know what is... :p:D
I checked them out bro! and they are on my list now!

How do you think they compare with the Kali IN-8 V2s??
 
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Jungle Child

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Far better. Coaxials are a hell of a thing.

Also, I'd skip the A7Xs just because of their generally pretty scoopy sound.
I've seen that, but anyone wonder WHY that scoop would be there? Maybe to put emphasis on the tweeter so that mix decisions could be easily made?
 

dfuller

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I've seen that, but anyone wonder WHY that scoop would be there? Maybe to put emphasis on the tweeter so that mix decisions could be easily made?
It sounds impressive in a demo room. That's my reasoning.
 
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Jungle Child

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The T5v might be fine for nearfield for you, but I notice from two meters away that battle scenes in Lord of the Rings are distorted and clipping. The IN-5 seems to go significantly louder, or it's handling the distortion much more gracefully according to my ears. (Specs suggest the same.)

I'd go with a cheap IN-8 Second Wave on Ebay, I believe they can be found for ~$670 or so.

Reasoning:
-Better port design
-Good bass extension
-More even vertical dispersion (if that's important to you)
-Better placement compensation on the back.

The T7v would be my minimum for an Adam, as the T5v only goes to 106 dB (103 for a single one I believe) which isn't low, but for some dynamic peaks it will be, and however it's handling distortion I don't like. The Devialet Phantom Reactor claims only 98dB but it doesn't sound as ragged when it's hitting that.

The IN-5 is 115 dB SPL and I think that's for one, so 118 for a pair, or the IN-8 is now ~120dB for a pair which is as high as I think most anyone would argue you need (unless you're listening to them further away, in which case, they will still work for that better than most of what's here.

The T7v goes to 110dB per pair, which is about half as loud as 120dB.

Note: I usually listen around 80dB per my calibrated Genelec mic with GLM, I don't recommend buying things based on loudness, and would recommend the Kali's even if they only went as loud as the Adam monitors here.

Note 2: If hiss bothers you, I'd stay away from the LP series of Kali monitors. My room is very quiet and it drives me nuts, as there are a few favorite songs that have quiet parts that are softer than the hiss. The IN-5 and IN-8v2 fix that. The original IN-8 still has hiss and I use them in my kitchen for non-critical listening though they seem to be fine for most reviewers who aren't bothered.

Low quality video, but here is the relative hiss of several monitors including Adam, Focal, JBL, Neumann:
I've been seeing a lot of neumann kh80s online as well, how do you think they match up with Kali IN-5
 

dfuller

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I've been seeing a lot of neumann kh80s online as well, how do you think they match up with Kali IN-5
Both have excellent directivity. The KH80 is a bit more linear on-axis; the IN-5 extends a bit lower though. As far as distortion vs level, looks like the IN-5 gets louder before severe distortion. I would ignore that bump at 15k, it's likely not audible.
KH80 DSP:
index.php

Kali IN-5:
CEA2034%20--%20Kali%20IN-5.png
 
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Jungle Child

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Both have excellent directivity. The KH80 is a bit more linear on-axis; the IN-5 extends a bit lower though. As far as distortion vs level, looks like the IN-5 gets louder before severe distortion. I would ignore that bump at 15k, it's likely not audible.
KH80 DSP:
index.php

Kali IN-5:
CEA2034%20--%20Kali%20IN-5.png
Whoa... that's seems like it could maybe be a winner!

I wonder how the soundstage and bass sound ! Anyone use these before???
 

stevenswall

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I've been seeing a lot of neumann kh80s online as well, how do you think they match up with Kali IN-5

Haven't heard them enough to directly compare. They score highly here. Bass handling is going to be lacking so you'll need a sub. According to Amir, they sound like small speakers.

If ultimate accuracy is what you're after and you use headphones to check bass, the KH80 will work well and is more accurate (or add a Neumann subwoofer and calibrate it and the monitors together). If you want something that can play dynamic peaks well and handle bass better, I'd get the IN-5 or IN-8 v2.

Translation wise I think you're going to be better off with something that doesn't sound like small, range limited speaker. Even if you check bass with headphones, now you're introducing a totally different frequency response for the mids and highs so how are you going to get the bass to match with the other frequencies unless you have a highly accurate headphone that sounds similar to the KH80?

Maybe it should come down to budget though: If you can afford the KH80 and a sub and their mic calibration kit, go for that. Otherwise, the toggles on the Kali's are going to be an advantage there too because they help with some placement issues.

1622066439854.png



The Neumann's need another $250 for the "Neumann MA 1 Monitor Alignment Microphone and Calibration System" which I have no doubt is better than the Kali presets, but at the cost of needing a sub ($1600) plus the mic.

Kali IN-5: $700
Kali IN-8: $670 on Ebay last I checked, new.
Neumann KH80: $1000, but bass limited and no calibration.
Neumann KH80 + Sub + Mic: $2500, but will handily outperform all of the above.
 

flipflop

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Hiss isn't an issue?
It isn't for me, but it depends on your listening distance, the background noise, and also the level of hiss you can personally tolerate.
 
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Jungle Child

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Haven't heard them enough to directly compare. They score highly here. Bass handling is going to be lacking so you'll need a sub. According to Amir, they sound like small speakers.

If ultimate accuracy is what you're after and you use headphones to check bass, the KH80 will work well and is more accurate (or add a Neumann subwoofer and calibrate it and the monitors together). If you want something that can play dynamic peaks well and handle bass better, I'd get the IN-5 or IN-8 v2.

Translation wise I think you're going to be better off with something that doesn't sound like small, range limited speaker. Even if you check bass with headphones, now you're introducing a totally different frequency response for the mids and highs so how are you going to get the bass to match with the other frequencies unless you have a highly accurate headphone that sounds similar to the KH80?

Maybe it should come down to budget though: If you can afford the KH80 and a sub and their mic calibration kit, go for that. Otherwise, the toggles on the Kali's are going to be an advantage there too because they help with some placement issues.

View attachment 132146


The Neumann's need another $250 for the "Neumann MA 1 Monitor Alignment Microphone and Calibration System" which I have no doubt is better than the Kali presets, but at the cost of needing a sub ($1600) plus the mic.

Kali IN-5: $700
Kali IN-8: $670 on Ebay last I checked, new.
Neumann KH80: $1000, but bass limited and no calibration.
Neumann KH80 + Sub + Mic: $2500, but will handily outperform all of the above.
According the SoundOnSound Review (https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/neumann-kh80-dsp) of the KH80s, they actually have a great deep bass response compared to the 3 way Neumann KH310., and if that's true.. that's astonishing along with the Linear freq. spectrum. Just amazing... BUT as you said, there has to be a compromise within the SOUND somewhere and I do feel like the mids are very critical when actually making decisions while listening and mixing; Because in the review 3/4 of it was only the about the bass when discussing the freq.. so what says a lot. Also with the additions that may be needed to make this system work in totality
 

dfuller

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I will quote @hardisj on the IN-5 from his review.

Parting / Random Thoughts

If you want to see the music I use for evaluating speakers subjectively, see my Spotify playlist.
    • Subjective listening was primarily at 1.5 meters. Subjective listening was conducted at 80-95dB at this distance. Higher volumes were done simply to test the output capability in case one wants to try to sit further away.
    • If you are looking for speakers for home theater or high-volume listening in a farfield situation like a living room or media room, these speakers are not recommended. These are designed for nearfield listening; the manual states the recommended listening range at 1 to 2 meters and most engineers mix in the 80-85dB range. As you can see in my frequency response linearity testing, the output is limited (via internal DSP) somewhere above the 96dB @ 1m output level. This is purposely designed to protect the speakers from being overdriven and thanks to this, they are indeed best served at moderate volumes and/or nearfield listening.
    • Generally speaking, most coaxial designs tend to fare better when angled slightly off-axis. A 10° toe-in or toe-out yields good results. In this case, however, the best listening axis appears to be directly on-axis, at 0° horizontal and vertical.
    • The front port means you have more ability to move these speakers in to the prime spot for your needs. And thanks to the dip switches you have more ability to place the speakers where you need; whether free standing, near a wall or on a console.
    • The on-axis linearity is ±1.5dB above 50Hz but once you enter the 7kHz region, things take a turn. The high-frequency droop above 7kHz is bothersome to see in the data, though, it wasn’t as problematic as I might have otherwise expected. The 6-8kHz region is responsible for sibilance and most people tend to cry foul when a speaker is sibilant. The IN-5 is not that. However, there was a feeling of spaciousness that was taken out of some tracks I listened to that I believe are due to this HF dip.
    • The bass of these speakers is downright flabbergasting. They don’t plumb the depths of 20Hz; you’ll still need a subwoofer for that. But they have absolutely no problem providing plenty of impact from a 50Hz kickdrum fundamental because the roll off doesn’t start until below this point. Aside from the sheer punch these possess is the detail. In The Police’s Wrapped Around Your Finger the bass line has vibrato. I mean, yea, a string is supposed to vibrate. But with these speakers, in the nearfield, you can almost see the waveform of the bass as it generates the tone. It’s like being in The Matrix. In fact, the bass of these speakers was my favorite thing. And there’s a lot to like about the IN-5.
    • In Norah Jones’ Tell Yer Mama, the left singer was very distinct; moreso than in most other speakers I have auditioned.
    • In Dire Straits’ Money For Nothin the opening guitar is panned around the stage and mixed out of phase, to the left of the soundstage. The IN-5s did a great job of providing a very distinct location of this out-of-phase effect while also providing clear separation between the same guitar that is located more closely to the center.
  • The soundstage of these speakers is awesome. Very deep when the recording calls for it. I felt the same way about the Kef R3 I reviewed. And, sure, I know some will say this is “expectation bias” but if you’ve met me you know that I forget things pretty quickly so you’ll believe me when I say it wasn’t until I was a few tracks in where I remembered testing the Kef R3 and noting the same thing about the soundstage depth. The Kef R3 and the Kali IN-5 are both coaxial (concentric in the case of Kef).
  • Soundstage width was outside the speakers but not immensely so. Listening to speakers in the nearfield, I have found, tends to have that effect because you no longer get the benefit of sidewall bounce (unless you are listening in a smaller room).
  • There is zero mechanical noise from these speakers (pops, over-excursion, vent noise) even at higher volumes. However, these are intended to be used as nearfield monitors in the 1-2 meter range. Going past this will naturally mean you’ll need more volume and if you are listening at absurd levels you will certainly run in to the built-in limiter throttling the output as I showed in my linearity test.
  • When listening, I noticed the HF tends to sound brighter the closer I was to the speaker. In the above in-room measurements you can see there is a gain of about 2dB when moving from 2.5 meters to 1.5 meters listening distance, so keep this in mind.
  • Hiss: When sitting in the nearfield, approximately 1 meter away, I didn’t experience any issues with noise floor in my living room. When I put my ear next to the speakers, I notice the noise floor. But, in my opinion, this is a non-issue.
  • Heat. I recently tested the Focal Twin6 Be and noticed that if the speaker was left on for a while - maybe an hour or so - the amplifier would get quite hot. Not scalding. But definitely warm to the touch. Leaving the IN-5 speakers on for hours at a time resulted in no heat at the amp. Not sure how important this is to you but I thought I’d mention it.
As for the KH-80, here's Amir's subjective review:
Informal Listening Tests
Listening tests as before were with JBL LSR305P on my left as the anchor/reference and the Neumann KH 80 DSP Monitor on the right. Levels were matched using pink noise.
The first noticeable thing was that the KH 80 was most similar to LSR305P than any other speaker I have tested so far (which is not a lot). With other speakers you would immediately hear strong accentuation or lack of energy with the differential being quite large relative to the JBL. Here, all the spectrum was here.
I was then surprised that I did not prefer the KH 80 considering that it has even smoother response than the LSR305P. There were two issues here:
1. The scale was too small. This may be a visual bias but the KH 80 sounded more like a little computer speaker than a large speaker that the 305P sounds like. It was a more focused sound emanating from a smaller source. This was a much smaller issue than #2 though.
2. The JBL had a bit more "zing" and clarity as a result that was just lacking in KH 80. Focusing on the graphs, I noticed that the 305P has good bit of peaking (relatively speaking) in and around the frequencies that the KH 80 is weak in. Since I was doing my listening tests using Adobe Audition, I pulled up its parametric EQ and dialed up the 1.8 khz area by about 3 dB. That made a big difference and brought the response and signature much closer to that of JBL. The good directivity meant that there was no ill effect to such a boost.
I figured if this worked, I would bring up the bass a bit to better match that of 305P. Big mistake. Sound went to hell and fast. This thing is optimized for what it already can there.
I am super anxious to see what the Olive preference score says about KH 80 versus the JBL 305P. If it ranks the KH 80 higher then we have some work to do to rationalize my informal listening tests. If so, then I need to expand my listening tests to be more formal and in better environment than just my desk.

If I were you, I would get the Kali.
The KH80s are pretty limited both in low end (F3 is about 57hz, F6 is 53hz) and in max SPL (108dB/1m peak, 102dB average). That is pretty bass-light if you're not running subs., and while 102dB is loud, the midwoofer is going to start complaining long before that, probably 90dB at most.
The Kalis on the other hand have an F3 around 47hz and are well in control of distortion at 96dB. That might not sound like much but that's the difference between good reproduction of a kick drum vs not.
 
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Jungle Child

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I will quote @hardisj on the IN-5 from his review.


As for the KH-80, here's Amir's subjective review:


If I were you, I would get the Kali.
The KH80s are pretty limited both in low end (F3 is about 57hz, F6 is 53hz) and in max SPL (108dB/1m peak, 102dB average). That is pretty bass-light if you're not running subs., and while 102dB is loud, the midwoofer is going to start complaining long before that, probably 90dB at most.
The Kalis on the other hand have an F3 around 47hz and are well in control of distortion at 96dB. That might not sound like much but that's the difference between good reproduction of a kick drum vs not.
Kali IN5s or Kali IN8s V2?
 

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I disagree on the part about non-nearfield listening tests with SPL on the IN-5. It sounds better far field than most nearfield Adams and such and handles higher SPL better: (If Aaron's Audio Corner is used to not using nearfield speakers and focuses on the range that is cut though, I can see his point. This isn't an issue relative to competitors, and I'd say most competitors are worse or just flat out bass light.)

1622068082040.png


The scale is used to highlight the limited, but it's down -2.5DB at 102dB playback. Very small price to pay, and the rest of the response is fine.

In any case, if you can fit the IN-8 v2 on your desk, it's cheaper than the IN-5 last I checked Ebay, and I have a pair of IN-8 v2 speakers I purchased and they are legitimate. For the $660 I got them for, they will have even higher SPL handling before this small amount of compression happens.
 

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Kali IN5s or Kali IN8s V2?

The IN-8 v2 if you can fit it. Everything that is good about the IN-5 but even more spl headroom and some more bass extension.
 
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How does anyone feel about the Eve Audio SC205 as well, they have a beautiful freq.
 

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I disagree on the part about non-nearfield listening tests with SPL on the IN-5. It sounds better far field than most nearfield Adams and such and handles higher SPL better: (If Aaron's Audio Corner is used to not using nearfield speakers and focuses on the range that is cut though, I can see his point. This isn't an issue relative to competitors, and I'd say most competitors are worse or just flat out bass light.)

View attachment 132153

The scale is used to highlight the limited, but it's down -2.5DB at 102dB playback. Very small price to pay, and the rest of the response is fine.

In any case, if you can fit the IN-8 v2 on your desk, it's cheaper than the IN-5 last I checked Ebay, and I have a pair of IN-8 v2 speakers I purchased and they are legitimate. For the $660 I got them for, they will have even higher SPL handling before this small amount of compression happens.
And people forget the boundary gain (3~4 dB if close to a hard wall) AND stereo gain (6 dB in the bass where it's mono).
We have a winner
Might be, but it depends on your listening distance, I wouldn't try under 90~100 cm.
 
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And people forget the boundary gain (3~4 dB if close to a hard wall) AND stereo gain (6 dB in the bass where it's mono).

Might be, but it depends on your listening distance, I wouldn't try under 90~100 cm.
so in u.s. metrics, 2 feet is the farthest you'll use them? that's pretty close, take it that I won't be using them on my desk but rather stands.
 

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so in u.s. metrics, 2 feet is the farthest you'll use them? that's pretty close, take it that I won't be using them on my desk but rather stands.

He is saying he would listen to them further than 90cm... Since they are coaxial and the bass driver is less than a quarter wavelength away from the midrange/tweeter, the ear hears it as a point source.

Listening to them at home, whether closer or far away, there aren't any inherent issues I've noticed. The IN-8 v2 will be fine very nearfield and in a living room from a distance.
 
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