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Kali Audio Appears to Be Releasing a Coaxial Speaker (NAMM video featuring Charles Sprinkle)

q3cpma said:
You should look at the KH310, unless you NEED a coaxial's vertical directivity.
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Thanks for the suggestion, I've checked those out spec wise but haven't heard them. The Genelec pair will cost me the same (used) as a pair of these, and I really want the excellent vertical dispersion, flatter response, and excellent bass extension on the 8260.

34Hz-21kHz (±3 dB) on the K&H vs doing into the 20hz region, and +/-1dB on the Genelec.

Do you have the K&H? Glad it's a three way and they are paying attention to diffraction, but it seems like a very odd arrangement for a three way... Seems like it would cause weird lobing off axis? If it's just for one person it shouldn't matter though.
 
stevenswall said:
Where is this suggested? I'd argue that you could listen to these closer than most speakers. In a living room you can basically stand up or sit down and they sound the same, unlike every non-coincident driver speaker I've listened to at similar distances where the balance of mids and treble changes a lot depending on if the tweeter or woofer is closer. (I have a HiVi DIY 3.1 and don't like how beamy it is.)
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In the specs:
"Listening Distance:2.8 Meters"

I assume it is for the hiss, not the imaging.
 
I mean, I don't know what that spec is supposed to imply, but it's 2.2 Meters for the LP-6, at the same time as they say it's designed for nearfield listening... and I can't imagine anyone treating a 6" monitor as requiring a 7ft minimum listening distance...

stevenswall said:
What is your budget and do you have a subwoofer?

For $2000, maybe $2300 since they increased the price, the Elac Navis sounds incredible. I returned that for port chuffing, but if you cross it over at 80hz or so you won't have that issue, and it has no audible self hiss, and quite satisfying low end if you use it nearfield. Should be find in a larger room too if you have subwoofers.

For $2500 the Phantom Reactor also has excellent dispersion, goes stupid loud, and has plenty of bass without a subwoofer.

For cheaper but only a two way, Tannoy Golds might be your cup of tea, but I haven't heard those like the ones I mentioned here.
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Thanks for the suggestions. I was aware of the Phantoms, but not the Elac or Tannoys. I do have a subwoofer. I was trying to stay below $1000 per channel, but that might not hold, we'll see. The Elac does look pretty nice, and the Tannoys look like they have potential for surround and height channels at least.

I'm probably going to wait until we see some measurements from Amir before making any more speaker purchasing decisions, in any case. I'm sure some interesting options will be measured...
 
Sancus said:
I'm probably going to wait until we see some measurements from Amir before making any more speaker purchasing decisions, in any case. I'm sure some interesting options will be measured...
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No kidding, can't wait... but I am going to make a purchase as Genelec already does tons of measurements on their speakers, and other than the Kali IN-8 and Elac Navis, there aren't many speakers I'm interested in until KEF makes and R300 active, or some other companies start using coincident drivers whenever they can, ideally in a three way speaker, or I can accept a two way like the Reactor with super wide dispersion and very deep bass.

Curious how the IN-8 will perform compared to an R300 or R3 though. Quite the price difference.
 
It seems my local shop has the Tannoy Gold 8s in the store - which surprised me since they don't seem widely available yet - so I'm going to go check them out tomorrow. Unfortunately they aren't a Kali dealer so I have nowhere to hear the IN-8s in person. I may have to do the ol' Guitar Center "rental"...
 
Rockfella said:
I am almost sure they will sound like no other at their price point.
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Just more hissy than things above or below their price point. A Mackie HR824 hisses less. So does a JBL 104.
 
Jmudrick said:
These guys do measurements and the speakers are DSP driven. There's more to this story.
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Or they got lazy and screwed the pooch prioritizing volume over everything. Genelec has done the same recently with their 8361 vs 8260. I think there's probably a reason the 8260 has such a smooth continuous surface with the midrange driver in their 8260. It measures +/-1dB and goes deeper than the 8361 which is +/-1.5dB. 50% wider range of peaks and nulls if you look at it that way... but it's louder since it has a larger tweeter.

In the IN-8 there are several ridges and an air gap between the tweeter and the woofer, and Kali very heavily leans of volume and dynamics for the price, and flatter response with the LP-6 and 8. Hopefully they make an LP-8.1 if there are truly issues with this one, and stop fixating on volume and distortion at all costs when they might be able to fix the lobing shown here and hiss issues for tens of dollars.

I'm becoming more an more distrusting of speaker makers in general. Seems like they have their own set of priorities that allow issues to make it through so long as the project manager gets their couple of design goals met. Need to go back to basics and get modern bass extension and no hiss first, then keep things as flat or close as possible to a target curve, then focus on other things as desired.
 
stevenswall said:
Or they got lazy and screwed the pooch prioritizing volume over everything. Genelec has done the same recently with their 8361 vs 8260. I think there's probably a reason the 8260 has such a smooth continuous surface with the midrange driver in their 8260. It measures +/-1dB and goes deeper than the 8361 which is +/-1.5dB. 50% wider range of peaks and nulls if you look at it that way... but it's louder since it has a larger tweeter.
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This seems a bit unfair given the 8260 is not a coaxial. Yeah, the 8361a has slightly worse on-axis frequency response, but it has the perfect symmetrical vertical directivity of the 83xx series in exchange. Which sounds better? I dunno, but I doubt I would notice the different on axis response.
 
Sancus said:
This seems a bit unfair given the 8260 is not a coaxial.
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The 8260 is the first coaxial monitor Genelec made, a precursor to "The Ones" but with a normal tweeter+mid coaxial setup with a 10" woofer underneath. Look at picture of it, it's easy to mistake the mid-range for part of the waveguide... But there's a reason why it's smooth and seamless like that.

Also, The Ones would be acoustically "tri-axial" which could be an advantage as their vertical directivity is even better, at the expense of accuracy, and bass extension, and possibly hiss since their newer ones are class D instead of all class AB.

Hopefully they release something that is an engineering milestone to compete with their 8260... The 8361 is just a larger 8350 with a ridged coaxial driver and less bass capability.

All that being said, all of these Genelec models which I've looked at and really wanted are extremely expensive. If only the IN-8 had been a bit more expensive but without the issues it has.

Or maybe KEF will get their rears in gear and release a 3-way upgrade to the LS50W instead of a smaller model.
 
stevenswall said:
The 8260 is the first coaxial monitor Genelec made, a precursor to "The Ones" but with a normal tweeter+mid coaxial setup with a 10" woofer underneath. Look at picture of it, it's easy to mistake the mid-range for part of the waveguide... But there's a reason why it's smooth and seamless like that.

Also, The Ones would be acoustically "tri-axial" which could be an advantage as their vertical directivity is even better, at the expense of accuracy, and bass extension, and possibly hiss since their newer ones are class D instead of all class AB.
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Huh that's interesting, I looked at the vertical directivity graph of the 8260 and it seemed poor compared to the newer coaxials, so I didn't look any further. I guess making the entire thing tri-axial made the difference there.

They give a spec for self-generated noise and it's <=5db @ 1m for the 8361a or about 25db @ 10cm, in comparison to the <20dba for the much smaller and less powerful Neumann KH80. The smaller speakers are 3db or 0db. I cannot hear my Neumann KH80s over my night-time noise floor without almost putting my ear in the wave guide.

Bass extension is not something I pay much attention to, since I don't really believe in running without a sub. However, yes, they are all extremely expensive, haha.

I've been trying to think about whether I can get away with 8341a @ 2.1m listening distance, or if I should really consider 8351b. And in general, just how these will sound compared to larger, less accurate floorstanders and whether or not it's worth the extreme expense. In general I'm probably just waiting for more speaker reviews before I buy anything.
 
It is not as good as their newer coaxials, but it significantly better than most two way and three way speakers that have "blobs" as usual for legacy designs.

I wonder what the self noise level is for JBL. Even the 7 series would bug me.

Bass extension: Yes, I'd run with subs if I could, especially if I saved money with the IN-8... I could have gotten two of their subs (which seem to not even go to 20hz unfortunately so it seems they have another product that needs an update.) That being said, the Genelec 8260 depending on the room can go down to 18hz or so, and getting into the 20's should be plenty for me. But yes, most monitors, including all of the new monitors Genelec makes, don't go as low, and many speakers even with 12" drivers sacrifice bass extension.

If you're going the GLM route with the Genelecs, you'd probably want to do something like DIRAC with the floorstanders... and the floorstanders will lock you into more of a vertical plane, pay no attention to baffle diffraction, don't care about internal reflections, and generally don't use coaxial drivers.

If you run with subs, you'll probably be fine with the 8341 unless you listen really loudly. Ask on the Genelec forums or email Genelec and they will tell ask for your room dimensions and let you know.
 
stevenswall said:
It is not as good as their newer coaxials, but it significantly better than most two way and three way speakers that have "blobs" as usual for legacy designs.

I wonder what the self noise level is for JBL. Even the 7 series would bug me.
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Yeah that's fair. I don't think I find self-noise as bothersome as you do(or my room is not as quiet, either way).

If you're going the GLM route with the Genelecs, you'd probably want to do something like DIRAC with the floorstanders... and the floorstanders will lock you into more of a vertical plane, pay no attention to baffle diffraction, don't care about internal reflections, and generally don't use coaxial drivers.
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Room correction is definitely going to be used no matter what, probably Dirac, because I don't think I'm going to do all-Genelecs for the whole multi-channel setup. But I would never even consider going without it.

If you run with subs, you'll probably be fine with the 8341 unless you listen really loudly. Ask on the Genelec forums or email Genelec and they will tell ask for your room dimensions and let you know.
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This is a good idea, will definitely do that.
 
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