K702 vs AD700x

[LegionOfHell]

I already have the Sony MA900 but I am looking for a headphone that beats the Sony in terms of soundstage size, separation and placement..

I am looking at K702 and AD700x … which one of these serves me better ?

Are there any other headphones I should consider ?

 

[Bullwinkle J Moose]

I already have the Sony MA900 but I am looking for a headphone that beats the Sony in terms of soundstage size, separation and placement..

I am looking at K702 and AD700x … which one of these serves me better ?

Are there any other headphones I should consider ?

You should consider the Sony MA900

Soundstage is determined by the source material, the amplifier AND the headphones

You can easily increase the soundstage of any headphones with software or hardware

separation may be an amplifier issue (or not)

Placement is how it was mixed (It is what it is)

What we all really need is a soundstage (width) control knob right next to our balance control
(not another pair of headphones)

Depending on the type of software or plugins you use (or even the hardware), the method of controlling the soundstage "CAN" in some cases affect balance
(hence the statement about soundstage (width) control knob right next to our balance control)

 

[Jimbob54]

You should consider the Sony MA900

Soundstage is determined by the source material, the amplifier AND the headphones

You can easily increase the soundstage of any headphones with software or hardware

separation may be an amplifier issue (or not)

Placement is how it was mixed (It is what it is)

What we all really need is a soundstage control knob right next to our balance control

Care to give us some software and settings for soundstage control please

 

[LegionOfHell]

Creative X7, Little dot I+ , Zorloo DAC/AMP... Youtube music

 

[Bullwinkle J Moose]

Care to give us some software and settings for soundstage control please

Sure, but remember, they all work differently from each other
One may work great with the Rolling Stones and another may work better for Bob Marley

Izotope Ozone 5 Imager (One of my Favorite Free Plugins)
Go to Vectorscope / Offset / Link Bands
Best range is usually -3 or -4 to +3 or +4
Some older tracks like Jethroe Tull - Hymn 43 (Jesus Save me) may require MUCH more adjustment (and EQ)

Waves Center Plugin (Reduces Mono relative to stereo information) but has a different sound to it than adjusting the mono content manually in a multitrack editor

Google: MidSide EQ Plugins (there are several)
Then watch the Youtube tutorials

A variable resister to ground for each channel on the input side of an amp will crossfeed stereo information in a negative feedback amplifier
It can give you a similar widening effect by reducing mono content but adding crosschannel info out of phase
A balance control will be needed in this case

There are likely dozens more that I never got around to as of yet (because I have enough)

You might think that several plugins do the exact same thing, but you need to compare them with a test track as they can all sound very different



Image is EVERYTHING!!!

 

[Cahudson42]

HE400se?

 

[LegionOfHell]

HE400se?

I already have the original HE-400, Want something in the same league as MA900 with huge soundstage, great separation and placement that beats MA900...

 

[Bullwinkle J Moose]

I already have the original HE-400, Want something in the same league as MA900 with huge soundstage, great separation and placement that beats MA900...

That would be ANY headphones with the right plugin
Even the MA900

But, the song you are playing has the biggest effect on soundstage, great separation and placement
Some sound mostly mono, some are perfect and some are too wide

The problem tracks can be fixed!
It's not the headphones

 

[Jimbob54]

Sure, but remember, they all work differently from each other
One may work great with the Rolling Stones and another may work better for Bob Marley

Izotope Ozone 5 Imager (One of my Favorite Free Plugins)
Go to Vectorscope / Offset / Link Bands
Best range is usually -3 or -4 to +3 or +4
Some older tracks like Jethroe Tull - Hymn 43 (Jesus Save me) may require MUCH more adjustment (and EQ)

Waves Center Plugin (Reduces Mono relative to stereo information) but has a different sound to it than adjusting the mono content manually in a multitrack editor

Google: MidSide EQ Plugins (there are several)
Then watch the Youtube tutorials

A variable resister to ground for each channel on the input side of an amp will crossfeed stereo information in a negative feedback amplifier
It can give you a similar widening effect by reducing mono content but adding crosschannel info out of phase
A balance control will be needed in this case

There are likely dozens more that I never got around to as of yet (because I have enough)

You might think that several plugins do the exact same thing, but you need to compare them with a test track as they can all sound very different



Image is EVERYTHING!!!

Thanks

 

[Bullwinkle J Moose]

Thanks

If you try the Izotope Ozone 5 Imager approach, it "MAY" be more difficult to know what the right setting is when using stereo program material (sometimes)

Mix the stereo track to mono to find the right setting with the Ozone plugin, then use that exact setting for the stereo track

Using the wrong setting for a stereo track may sound OK, until you hear the track in mono and you instantly know that it is wrong

On a mono track, there is really only one setting that sounds best so you know it's the right setting (usually - somewhere between +4 and -4)

Also, using headphones like Sundara or the Sony MA900 (that sound a bit narrow to begin with) might give you better final results that then sound good on anything (in my opinion)

 

[Ufasas]

I already have the Sony MA900 but I am looking for a headphone that beats the Sony in terms of soundstage size, separation and placement..

I am looking at K702 and AD700x … which one of these serves me better ?

Are there any other headphones I should consider ?

I have ma900 and k702, and i bought k702 just few months ago, I stopped using ma900 now, so I think k702 could be a nice choice for you, they both strong at soundstage, plus as this hobby becoming addictive, I am eyeing another openback premium - 1840, reading too many good replies about them, nevermind their 500,- price, they could be at 200~ right now (opened never used, or slightly used):

 

[3125b]

The AD700X seems to have a somewhat ... weird FR: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...arman_over-ear_2018/Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X
Your current Sonys track the Harman target a lot closer. The K702 will be more treble-forward compared to the Sony.
If you happen to have too much money, you could try to double down on that earspeaker-design and look for some Stax.

I am eyeing another openback premium - 1840

If you want to hear for my take on it: Never much cared for the 1840.
As far as sound is concerned, I never understood why it should cost 500€. Did a comparison recently with HD 600, K702 and DT 880, can't say that the 1840 really gives you anything more than those. That goes for many headphones in that ~500€/$ price class, they don't tend to be all that different from the entry level HiFi-gear. But at 200€/$ that is a completely different story of course.
What I couldn't get over though are three things concerning the construction:
- thin headband pads
- fairly small earcups (if they fit, they are comfortable though)
- tiny, fragile MMCX connectors wich are completely misplaced on an over-ear headphone, so be careful with it

 

[LegionOfHell]

The AD700X seems to have a somewhat ... weird FR: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Au...arman_over-ear_2018/Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X
Your current Sonys track the Harman target a lot closer. The K702 will be more treble-forward compared to the Sony.
If you happen to have too much money, you could try to double down on that earspeaker-design and look for some Stax.

In terms of soundstage size, placement and separation, how would you rate the three headphones ? I think it is like K702>AD700x>MA900 ... am I right in thinking that ?

 

[3125b]

I‘ve never heard the Audio-Technica nor the Sony, but I own a K702, wich is pretty good, certainly for its class. But realize that that has a lot to do with HRTF and FR.

 

[Ufasas]

The AD700X seems to have a somewhat ... weird FR: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/gras_43ag-7_harman_over-ear_2018/Audio-Technica ATH-AD700X
Your current Sonys track the Harman target a lot closer. The K702 will be more treble-forward compared to the Sony.
If you happen to have too much money, you could try to double down on that earspeaker-design and look for some Stax.


If you want to hear for my take on it: Never much cared for the 1840.
As far as sound is concerned, I never understood why it should cost 500€. Did a comparison recently with HD 600, K702 and DT 880, can't say that the 1840 really gives you anything more than those. That goes for many headphones in that ~500€/$ price class, they don't tend to be all that different from the entry level HiFi-gear. But at 200€/$ that is a completely different story of course.
What I couldn't get over though are three things concerning the construction:
- thin headband pads
- fairly small earcups (if they fit, they are comfortable though)
- tiny, fragile MMCX connectors wich are completely misplaced on an over-ear headphone, so be careful with it

I expect similar quality in 1840 too, so they would only be great pick once price is below 200, plus different earpads change their sound too (like 1540 earpads on 1840), also someone pulled out 1840 mmcx connectors accidently , but he replied that cable and the rest were fine , so dunno about this one.

Another thing k702 were 300-399,- at the begining too, nowadays 60-109,- (lol), and almost feels like you will never need anything else

The biggest question for me, how can 1840 with improved bass have great to excellent soundstage, i would love to hear them in can jam or somewhere and decide myself

 

[Chyżwar]

In terms of soundstage size, placement and separation, how would you rate the three headphones ? I think it is like K702>AD700x>MA900 ... am I right in thinking that ?

I have had the K701 and K702 several times and was not impressed. They just sound like headphones with a wide soundstage. AD700X, AD900X and ADG1X are something different, maybe the soundstage is not wider, but very open, airy and 3D. With some songs they give me the illusion that I'm not listening to headphones. It's very impressive. Unfortunately, these are not neutral headphones, the sound is a bit strange , good for multimedia, not critical listening.
I never heard MA900. Many years ago I had the MDR-F1 but I wasn't a big fan of these.
If you're looking for neutral headphones with a nice soundstage, I think the K612 are a good choice, but if you are looking for the best soundstage in this price category, ATH are the best IMO.