Just spoke with Apple about the 3rd gen Apple TV 4k and sending pass-through audio to a receiver

[AdamG]

I don't get what this petition is asking for?
"True Lossless Dolby Atmos support on the Apple TV 4K"
I don't see Apple offering a full lossless TrueHD Atmos stream for the fairly near future,
it would be too demanding of their bandwidth.
For that we thankfully have BluRay or mkv downloads in many cases.

It would be nice if you could download the True Lossless Atmos for later off line consumption. They could even impose a low demand time frame for the download so it doesn’t sap their bandwidth during peak streaming times. But from experience it’s getting harder and harder to notice the differences with the only real difference in the low frequency zone where they tend to crush this area and to me it’s the most noticeable aspect. If you’re not running subs and looking for that 40Hz or lower frequency it’s darn near impossible to notice the difference. Could be to do with my 10k hz and above hearing loss. Definitely a consideration if you still have good hearing. Otherwise we live in the golden times of streaming Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision or HDR. Incredible to think where we were five or so years ago. On demand high quality audio and video from multitudes of streaming services. Just Amazing and I’m like a pig in the mud over it.

 

[Sal1950]

It would be nice if you could download the True Lossless Atmos for later off line consumption.

That would be awesome but for sure it would have to be attached to a "purchase" pricetag.
It would be great to see the labels (or anyone) offer lossless .mkv downloads like IAA and others for all multich mixes
they have in the vaults. They're just too damn paranoid about sharing.

Otherwise we live in the golden times of streaming Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision or HDR. Incredible to think where we were five or so years ago. On demand high quality audio and video from multitudes of streaming services. Just Amazing and I’m like a pig in the mud over it.

+1,000. What an incredible time it is to have a good surround music system. New & remastered stuff being released faster than I have time listen to it all. 5.1&7.1 @ 24/192, and lossless TrueHD Atmos @ 24/48k brings unheard of sound quality to todays artists and mixing engineers toolkits. wOOt.
Futures so bright, I gotta wear shades.

 

[AdamG]

That would be awesome but for sure it would have to be attached to a "purchase" pricetag.

Well you can download movies and Tv shows using Netflix, Apple TV, Prime Video, Disney and maybe a few other streaming services. Granted I have not personally assessed what quality of Downloads you can expect. Will these services allow you to download at 4k/HDR/Vision/Atmos? I can not say for certain myself. And when you download it you only have play rights as long as your streaming account is active. Not sure how they verify this. So I was spitballing on a possible method to get the higher quality without out taking the bandwidth hit of live streaming full UHD disc quality. Sorry for any confusion Sal.

 

[Sal1950]

Well you can download movies and Tv shows using Netflix, Apple TV, Prime Video, Disney and maybe a few other streaming services.

AFAIK the downloaded quality for Apple's Atmos files is the same as the streaming DD+ compression.

And when you download it you only have play rights as long as your streaming account is active. Not sure how they verify this.

That's true as far as most of the streamers you mentioned so you don't really "buy" them, your only allowed continued
off-line listening rental as long as you pay that monthly subscription.
Only guys offering TOTL quality from downloads are IAA, SDE, and alike.
HDTracks is offering a handful of 5.1 albums but nothing in Atmos AFAIK.
I'm not a collector of audio media so the immersive download guys are my rav's

 

[AdamG]

AFAIK the downloaded quality for Apple's Atmos files is the same as the streaming DD+ compression.

I did a short test on Disney and Appletv. I downloaded a couple of Movies that are in Dolby Vision HDR and Atmos. After downloading and playing back it was the Dolby Atmos DD+ audio and Dolby Vision HDR video. So pretty darn good in my opinion but not UHD Disc quality. I still prefer to throw the UHD in when I have that option. I was surprised though that the DL quality seemed to rival the Streaming version. I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[Sal1950]

Streaming version. I was pleasantly surprised.

For sure, contrary to Jim Austin, the compressed Atmos sound is not "A Bleak Shadow".
Given the choice I would go for a Lossless Dolby TrueHD stream, but this ain't chopped liver either.

Along with that, all streamed video is heavily compressed, but mostly looks pretty excellent here on my 85" Samsung.
I also love the UHD 4K BD's but the Apple streams don't make my eyes water.
One day if I hit the lotto I may go for a Kalidiscape sub but for now I'm happy.

 

[Paolosnz]

Has anyone tried tidal's atmos albums?

 

[FriedChicken]

Apple needs to get its head out of its ass and stop playing this game of restricting basic functionality because it could, in some theoretical realm, compromise another income source. I'm pretty sure this is what apple is doing here, there is no other excuse that makes sense. The products are good, but not that good.

I need an HTPC that will work with my harmony remote and do what the WDTV can't (4k, HDR, be faster). I have yet to find such a device. Anything requiring a login or registration to work is a no go. I immediately returned my otherwise promising Zappiti when it asked for a login. Same with the nVidia shield TV. Good lord, what has happened to my beloved tech industry

 

[Tre2023]

I hear ya'

 

[FriedChicken]

You can also install VLC on your AppleTV to play whatever files you want...... however not with audio pass-through... Which turns the entire home cinema equation on its head. Pass-through takes no overhead, it actually relieves overhead from the device. The decoding happens on the receiver, as it should.

This allows the receiver, configured for the listening space to do the conversion as necessary, including any processing (prior to conversion to bitstream and being sent to the DAC).

Apple lives in fairy-tale land and will break the canon of home theater in a way that's detrimental to the consumer, or more likely than not, not gain any marketshare in the serious home audio space.

There's a very clear loss of transparency in the home theater sound when sending bitstream audio vs pass-through audio. It's tangible and makes the AppleTV 4k a poor choice for those who want to do things right. The unfortunate reason for this isn't in any way technical, it's a decision on apple's part.

JFC people

 

[Sal1950]

There's a very clear loss of transparency in the home theater sound when sending bitstream audio vs pass-through audio. It's tangible and makes the AppleTV 4k a poor choice for those who want to do things right. The unfortunate reason for this isn't in any way technical, it's a decision on apple's part.

I would challenge you to provide supportable evidence to that claim.

 

[EJ3]

The Apple TV 4K just isn’t the device to use for those that want a device to bitstream signals from their NAS to their receiver. This is why many use the Amazon Fire Cube 3rd Gen or the Nvidia Shield TV Pro. Results will vary using different apps on those devices.

The complexity of it all has me just playing the discs and I got out of the idea of NAS when my WD My Net N900 Central started wigging out and WD killed the My Cloud app support for the old My Net devices. WD had something there for a bit.

I too: just play disks.

 

[Sal1950]

The Apple TV 4K just isn’t the device to use for those that want a device to bitstream signals from their NAS to their receiver. This is why many use the Amazon Fire Cube 3rd Gen or the Nvidia Shield TV Pro. Results will vary using different apps on those devices.

The complexity of it all has me just playing the discs and I got out of the idea of NAS when my WD My Net N900 Central started wigging out and WD killed the My Cloud app support for the old My Net devices. WD had something there for a bit.

I'm a bit buzz'd here tonight but why on earth would you run the stored files on your NAS thru any of these low powered devices and not do it properly with a computer? None of these devices have the proper computing power to run a good media player, audio/video card and then serve them losslessly, in real time, over HDMI? And AFAIK of all of them, the Apple has the most computing power of them all.

 

[Sal1950]

I too: just play disks.

That's another way. LOL

 

[EJ3]

That's another way. LOL

I have the gear to have 4K, why would I want to not run true 4K (and I have actually some 8K files (for many years now) but nothing to play them on with 8K resolution.
A NAS is something that I hope to get early next year.

 

[Sal1950]

I have the gear to have 4K, why would I want to not run true 4K (and I have actually some 8K files

Me too, I fully agree with you.
I just wonder over the value of 8k to normal folk.
I use my computer for the vast majority of my music & some stored movies with 12tb of internal SSD storage. In my little home here (900sqft) I don't really have a need to build a separate NAS though I guess you could call IT a NAS? Or I could turn my 12tb back-up drive into a NAS, if I'm ever in the need for one.

 

[EJ3]

Me too, I fully agree with you.
I just wonder over the value of 8k to normal folk.
I use my computer for the vast majority of my music & some stored movies with 12tb of internal SSD storage. In my little home here (900sqft) I don't really have a need to build a separate NAS though I guess you could call IT a NAS? Or I could turn my 12tb back-up drive into a NAS, if I'm ever in the need for one.

I don't know about the 8K either. I have it on one of my computers & it will play as if it were a 1080 file (I do not have 4K on my computer [hopefully that will change after Jan 1 (I get 2/3 of my annual budget on or before the 31st of December this year) & I reallocate my annual budget. At that time I pay my water, electric, car insurances, car payments, etc., through January of the following year. Then I subtract anticipated home repairs, tree cutting expenses (I can't use solar because of the tree cover over my house [which cannot be found using the areal view of Google maps, although all my neighbor's homes show up] on the other hand, my power bill is low during the summer due to the tree cover). and see what's left to allocate to the stereo budget and our "leave the house' entertainment budget.
I have an oPPo 205 UDP, so I will likely get a 48'-50"tv for it to play to, also.

 

[FriedChicken]

I would challenge you to provide supportable evidence to that claim.

There's nothing to prove. Where do you think the processing layer sits in an object-based surround format??? If it were simple direct stereo that would be one thing, but not with the higher level audio formats.

 

[Sal1950]

There's nothing to prove. Where do you think the processing layer sits in an object-based surround format??? If it were simple direct stereo that would be one thing, but not with the higher level audio formats.

but why on earth would you run the stored files on your NAS thru any of these low powered devices and not do it properly with a computer?

AFAIK, this whole discussion and the signal path is off the rails, see above.
Why would anyone choose what is so obviously a less than optimal path for their files?
Beyond that, as to your statement on the "a very clear loss of transparency", if its so clear, so should be the ease
of the presentation of the evidence where the loss of digital info is being corrupted or lost. I'm more than will to
learn here.

It's also way too easy to hear the Apple hate in your posting and to discount the claims due to emotional bias.

 

[Tre2023]

I'm a bit buzz'd here tonight but why on earth would you run the stored files on your NAS thru any of these low powered devices and not do it properly with a computer? None of these devices have the proper computing power to run a good media player, audio/video card and then serve them losslessly, in real time, over HDMI? And AFAIK of all of them, the Apple has the most computing power of them all.

You'd have to ask somebody who is actually doing it. I stream from services what I do not have on a disc. Some want to use an Apple TV 4K to play their own stored media but wish it could bitstream/passthrough the signal. It converts the incoming signals to LPCM for output and doesn't support some signals at all. It is what it is.