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JTR Noesis 210HT speaker (review by Erin)

Colonel7

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why's the official site show a different woofer used? Like this looks like a pro style, and they have a rubber surround type one.
WBnYujAA.jpg
It's at the top of Erin's review.

These speakers were loaned to me by JTR Speakers. Keep in mind that this is a 2022 version so it doesn’t look like the one on the website (as of the time this review was published; hopefully it will be updated soon). This, of course, also means my review set won’t measure/sound the exact same as previous versions. For example, the previous version is stated as using a 700Hz crossover but Jeff told me this version has an 850Hz crossover point.
 

abdo123

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This just means high effiency speakers are not for me. Im not going to want to use eq after spending so much on a speaker. But thats just me. But IF DSP was already built in, I would heavily consider this.

If you don’t have Room EQ already then you shouldn’t spend any (further) money on speakers period.
 

abdo123

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I don't think there's any obvious mistake here. Very high efficiency speakers like these often require additional EQ processing -- I know that some manufacturers after purchase will provide the necessary/recommended DSP. Others have it already fully built-in, and others you have to create manually for yourself. This will be easier to understand if you check out the raw frequency response measurements of more HE drivers and/or speakers.

The default tuning is V-shaped. How is that not a mistake?

Like okay you can excuse a 5 db resonance depending on your standards but if the tuning is incorrect that’s not excusable.
 

ernestcarl

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The default tuning is V-shaped. How is that not a mistake?

Like okay you can excuse a 5 db resonance depending on your standards but if the tuning is incorrect that’s not excusable.

If you feel that strongly about it... then, okay.
 

LTig

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Provides for solid dynamic range and headroom. Music is rarely recorded at a set volume/loudness level. You may not listen at high levels on average but well designed speakers should have sufficient head room to play louder passages of a score without objectionable distortion. Just a guess!
But a good guess, right on spot!
 

MarkWinston

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If you don’t have Room EQ already then you shouldn’t spend any (further) money on speakers period.
Not entirely true. That is just a blanket statement covering the widest range of upgrades and circumstances.
 

LTig

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Could someone help with a fundamental understanding of narrow or wide horizontal beamwidth (Erin measured it as narrow in this speaker's case).

In a large echoey room, my intuition says a speaker with narrow beamwidth would be less problematic versus one with wide beamwidth (less energy would hit side walls), but is my intuition correct?
It is.
 

fineMen

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I don't think there's any obvious mistake here.
Alas, I hate to say, I see too many mistakes. The grand total in sound power is uneven, and cannot be equalised, without loosing a flat direct radiation. The HD in the mids wouldn't cost me sleepless nights for itself. But, such an amount indicates severe problems with the driver. They could induce intermodulation, which kills music by that archtypical loudspeaker sound (barfing, howling).

Could be, that the HD is due to the speakers not prepared yet, too stiff of a cone(!) and suspension.

Directivity appears to be not that preferable anyway.
 

Schollaudio

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In all fairness the FR is about +-2.5db. I think a 15" two way would have better distortion in the low\mids. Highs look very good. Maybe a little more work from 300-1K would be the ticket.
 

ernestcarl

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Alas, I hate to say, I see too many mistakes. The grand total in sound power is uneven, and cannot be equalised, without loosing a flat direct radiation. The HD in the mids wouldn't cost me sleepless nights for itself. But, such an amount indicates severe problems with the driver. They could induce intermodulation, which kills music by that archtypical loudspeaker sound (barfing, howling).

Could be, that the HD is due to the speakers not prepared yet, too stiff of a cone(!) and suspension.

Directivity appears to be not that preferable anyway.

Yep, it's obviously not perfect.

That kink in the sound power seems to be mainly related to the vertical dispersion. How would you fix the somewhat simple vertically configured design of this speaker, then?

The narrow directivity may certainly not suit you, but it may just fit the preference or needs of someone else out there.
 

fineMen

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The narrow directivity may certainly not suit you, but it may just fit ...
I'm not referring to the narrow directivity, but to it's unevenness. In parts it reminds me of the Electro Voice HR series, e/g HR90, the first "constant directivity" horns. I tried them. The leakage of high frequency sound to the sides spoiled my enthusiasm about owning a true icon. Only later EV introduced fins in the throat of the horn, and solved the problem perfectly. ... Here I see a horn not that well and critically designed. It looks more like a second sketch, but not yet finalized. The vertical again is as bad as expectable. A true three-way design would had helped out. But what do I know?
 

ernestcarl

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I'm not referring to the narrow directivity, but to it's unevenness.

You mentioned directivity was not preferable... so do you mean now to say the unevenness of the frequency response is not preferable? -- which for the most part is kind of fixable?
 

fineMen

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You mentioned directivity was not preferable... so do you mean now to say the unevenness of the frequency response is not preferable? -- which for the most part is kind of fixable?
The directivity widens towards higher frequencies. I personally found such, with another driver/horn combination first spectacular, then bothersome. It may depend on the actual design--and room.
Directivity is not as much in check, as one might expect from the constructive and financial effort.

From my perspective the design doesn't live up in two points: distortion and directivity control. I could and have done better with less effort, of course referring to my personal ideal.

HR90.JPG
 

More Dynamics Please

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Could someone help with a fundamental understanding of narrow or wide horizontal beamwidth (Erin measured it as narrow in this speaker's case).

In a large echoey room, my intuition says a speaker with narrow beamwidth would be less problematic versus one with wide beamwidth (less energy would hit side walls), but is my intuition correct?
Wide beamwidth in a live room can be at least partially compensated for by toeing in the speakers so that they are facing further away from the nearest side wall in order to reduce early reflections. In fact Tom Danley is one of the leading advocates (along with Earl Geddes and others) of extreme toe-in where stereo speakers are pointed in a way to intersect a few feet in front of the center listening position.
 

hardisj

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Wide beamwidth in a live room can be at least partially compensated for by toeing in the speakers so that they are facing further away from the nearest side wall in order to reduce early reflections. In fact Tom Danley is one of the leading advocates (along with Earl Geddes and others) of extreme toe-in where stereo speakers are pointed in a way to intersect a few feet in front of the center listening position.

AKA: Time/Intensity trading.

 

flyzipper

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Thanks guys.

I'm in a unique situation -- my room is 40' wide, so the speakers are 15' feet from the side-walls, while the middle listening position is 20 feet.

So distance is the other variable I'm curious about (affecting time-delay of the reflections, and their amplitude).

I've been considering JTR for the evolution of my setup because I love their dynamics.
 

Head_Unit

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I don't get it. A big box, twin 10" and a gigantic horn, OK the specified sensitivity 95 dB at 2 volts. Then @hardisj measures 92.5 dB at 2.83 volts.
- Where the hell is the sensitivity? I'd be expecting like 98 or something. I do not get it.
- That horn, is it really just four straight sides inside? Or is there some taper that is just not visible in the pictures?
- Pretty much no roundover at the horn edge...that doesn't seem in accord with my understanding of state-of-the-art horn design. If you're not matching the horn to the outside environment you'll get reflections from the mouth back in, not good. Then again, the impedance curve looks smooth so perhaps it is working better than its appearance.
- Um, did I ask how on Earth the efficiency is unimpressive?
 

Chromatischism

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The V-smile tuning is rather disappointing. on-axis linearity is nothing to write home about either.

With the cult following this brand has i expected much more.
I think there is a big difference between the small 2-way and the larger 3-way coaxial speakers, with pattern control down to lower frequencies.

 

tuga

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I think there is a big difference between the small 2-way and the larger 3-way coaxial speakers, with pattern control down to lower frequencies.


As discussed in the topic you've linked, in my view, "real" horn speakers produce narrow, constant directivity down to the mid-bass, and for that they need to be at least 4-way = 3-horn + bass-bin.
This is the horizontal response of a 3-way = 2-horn + bass-bin Avantgarde (3-horn will deal with the flare between mid and treble horn and also maintain directivity constant to a lower frequency):

10-UNO-hor-1024x683.jpg

https://www.fidelity-online.de/avantgarde-acoustic-uno-xd-messungen/


Some easy to grasp info on horn speakers here:

 

ctrl

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I don't get it. A big box, twin 10" and a gigantic horn, OK the specified sensitivity 95 dB at 2 volts. Then @hardisj measures 92.5 dB at 2.83 volts.
- Where the hell is the sensitivity? I'd be expecting like 98 or something. I do not get it.
I'm not sure if your comment was meant ironically, but I'm assuming it's serious, otherwise I couldn't give a serious answer ;)

The speaker is designed for very high sensitivity. However, with an f3 of 79Hz, it hardly delivers any bass and can't really be used without a subwoofer or heavy EQ (which significantly reduces the dynamic capabilities).
Perhaps the designer of the speaker could have "squeezed out" a little more sensitivity, but then it would have been more difficult with the connection to the subwoofer at 80Hz or below.

Since most manufacturers do not adhere to a standardized calculation of the sensitivity, they outdo each other with ever new superlatives.
This leads to people being shocked when a small bookshelf speaker with "real" low bass has only 82dB sensitivity (which is normal) or thinking that 92dB sensitivity is "low" (which is not) - calculated by a standardized method of averaging SPL over a frequency range.

In CTA-2034-A ("spinorama standard") it says about the calculation of the average sound pressure level:

1647165548573.png

@ rms input voltage level of 2.83V.

I have drawn here the frequency ranges for the calculation of the sensitivity, which CTA-2034-A and many here in the forum use - it's a sketch, have not calculated the average for 100-1000Hz, only estimated:

1647164198879.png
 
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