Jean Marie Reynaud Bliss Measurements ?

[oursmagenta]

Hello everyone ! (That's my first post BTW)

I'm wondering before pulling any trigger (right now my aim is at the Kef R3), is there any serious/decent objective measurements (not from manufacturer) of the Jean Marie Reynaud Bliss bookshelf speaker ?

I'd happily purchase them (it seems that transparency was in mind for these speakers) but even though 2k euros is not a paramount bag of money that would be nice if I could do that in a peaceful state of mind.

N.B: otherwise I will go for the quite already discussed/reviewed/measured Kef R3

 

[thewas]

First of all welcome to ASR.

it seems that transparency was in mind for these speakers

What makes you come to this conclusion?

 

[oursmagenta]

First of all welcome to ASR.

What makes you come to this conclusion?

Just some hand wavy PR stuff from the brand (I can't recollect where I read this though)

Edit: found it ! https://jm-reynaud.com/bliss-jubile.html ->

The BLISS Jubilee will delight music lovers keen to sound that is truthful without coloring or ostentation, and who are looking for frank dynamic, highly nuanced, sophisticated, and varied tones.

Oh boy that sound as b*****it as it can get ...

 

[thewas]

Oh boy that sound as b*****it as it can get ...

Oh yes, its usually more expedient to ignore such flowery descriptions and concentrate on measurements and technical characteristics.

 

[Grotti]

Beside this marketing-BS: JMR is in the business for quite a long time now and they have a certain reputation. Perhaps there's a chance to audition the speakers in your area? Ideally in comparison to the KEF?

 

[oursmagenta]

That would be "ideal" for a golden ear or an experienced neutral-tonality-listener... which I'm not .

And that's the issue with the purchase-by-noob thing, I assume that on a A/B listening test I would [epically] fail to say which speaker is more neutral from the other (maybe making a difference would be possible though).

However being assured to get a neutral pair of speaker could start to educate my ear to what should actually sound a neutral speaker.

It feels like I'm in an egg-chicken problem

 

[Moonhead]

I had some JMR Trente before going active, impressive bass for there size but horrible zingy tweeter, stayed away from passive ever since.
Do miss the Cayin 265AI I paired with the those hideous trente.

 

[Grotti]

That would be "ideal" for a golden ear or an experienced neutral-tonality-listener... which I'm not .

And that's the issue with the purchase-by-noob thing, I assume that on a A/B listening test I would [epically] fail to say which speaker is more neutral from the other (maybe making a difference would be possible though).

However being assured to get a neutral pair of speaker could start to educate my ear to what should actually sound a neutral speaker.

It feels like I'm in an egg-chicken problem

I think no one needs a golden tongue to be able to tell, whether he likes some food or not. Hearing experience helps to separate the good speakers from the bad ones but in my former job as a hifi salesman I often experienced, that many customers were really clear in their perception of speakers without being experts.

So it all comes down to give them a try

 

[Kachda]

I think no one needs a golden tongue to be able to tell, whether he likes some food or not. Hearing experience helps to separate the good speakers from the bad ones but in my former job as a hifi salesman I often experienced, that many customers were really clear in their perception of speakers without being experts.

So it all comes down to give them a try

I am not so sure...there is a reason so many speaker brands go for enhanced treble..the first 10 mins (which is what most salesman demos are like) will seem really 'clear'. Then the customer will take it home and wonder why they get headaches when they listen to music for more than 30 mins. This is why measurements are helpful to at least eliminate some obviously bad speakers, after which auditioning can be done.

 

[oursmagenta]

I think no one needs a golden tongue to be able to tell, whether he likes some food or not. Hearing experience helps to separate the good speakers from the bad ones but in my former job as a hifi salesman I often experienced, that many customers were really clear in their perception of speakers without being experts.

So it all comes down to give them a try

Yeah, I guess you are right ... I will have a look in this direction also.

 

[oursmagenta]

I am not so sure...there is a reason so many speaker brands go for enhanced treble..the first 10 mins (which is what most salesman demos are like) will seem really 'clear'. Then the customer will take it home and wonder why they get headaches when they listen to music for more than 30 mins. This is why measurements are helpful to at least eliminate some obviously bad speakers, after which auditioning can be done.

Yeah, I guess you are right ... I will have a look in this direction also.

I'm kidding (a bit). These two point of views represent maybe one aspect of the subjectivist/coward-to-decide-camp/objectivist debate (don't want to start a troll there).

 

[Kachda]

Hello everyone ! (That's my first post BTW)

I'm wondering before pulling any trigger (right now my aim is at the Kef R3), is there any serious/decent objective measurements (not from manufacturer) of the Jean Marie Reynaud Bliss bookshelf speaker ?

I'd happily purchase them (it seems that transparency was in mind for these speakers) but even though 2k euros is not a paramount bag of money that would be nice if I could do that in a peaceful state of mind.

N.B: otherwise I will go for the quite already discussed/reviewed/measured Kef R3View attachment 107080View attachment 107081

Personally I am a bit suspicious of these graphs. The first graphs shows a very good frequency response (within 3db in the 100hz-20khz range). However, in the third graph, the green line (0deg) shows a difference of ~5db between 200Hz and 430Hz or so. The dip at 430hz is not visible in the first graph at all ?

 

[oursmagenta]

Personally I am a bit suspicious of these graphs. The first graphs shows a very good frequency response (within 3db in the 100hz-20khz range). However, in the third graph, the green line (0deg) shows a difference of ~5db between 200Hz and 430Hz or so. The dip at 430hz is not visible in the first graph at all ?

Good catch !

Do directivity measurements usually take place also in anechoïque chambers (that's could explain the discrepancy between the two measurements) ?
This dip reminds me what we can see while you do in-room response (like maybe the consequence of a room mode).

Edit: nah room mode are way "louder" ...

 

[Grotti]

I am not so sure...there is a reason so many speaker brands go for enhanced treble..the first 10 mins (which is what most salesman demos are like) will seem really 'clear'. Then the customer will take it home and wonder why they get headaches when they listen to music for more than 30 mins. This is why measurements are helpful to at least eliminate some obviously bad speakers, after which auditioning can be done.

It's up to the customer! It is your choice to say, what you want to hear and in certain limits how long you want to listen to a speaker. The good dealers will give you the opportunity to make up your mind and of course the chance to listen to a speaker (at least at this price point) at home.
If the dealer won't do that: leave the store!

 

[oursmagenta]

It's up to the customer! It is your choice to say, what you want to hear and in certain limits how long you want to listen to a speaker. The good dealers will give you the opportunity to make up your mind and of course the chance to listen to a speaker (at least at this price point) at home.
If the dealer won't do that: leave the store!

That's is entirely true, but I think that when you are not experienced you may like (even after multiple hours of listening) a really non-neutral speaker.

What I'm looking for here (but that's utterly subjective) is a tool that can also educate one toward neutral listening.

 

[Moonhead]

If you leaning towards neutral, maybe some active monitors is the better way to go.

 

[oursmagenta]

If you leaning towards neutral, maybe some active monitors is the better way to go.

Yep this may also be an option, but then the budget rises (looking at you kh310a) and the waf goes down (monitors tend to be pro speakers that look like pro speakers).

Also:
a) kh310a + mindsp shd (dirac-live inside YaY) = almost upfront 5k euros while
b) Bliss/Kef R3 + already owned sr6011 (don't laugh please) = 1.6k/2k euros (I can buy the minidsp shd + some class d-amplifier later)

b) less husband/wife arguing VS a) need a PhD in politics

 

[Moonhead]

Maybe...
KH80
KH120
8030C

 

[thewas]

However being assured to get a neutral pair of speaker could start to educate my ear to what should actually sound a neutral speaker.

An additional problem is that even if the JMR are similarly neutral on-axis like the KEF R3, they will sound quite differently in most rooms as the KEF has higher and more smooth directivity.
Therefore it might be more expedient to chose a loudspeaker depending on your room acoustics, listening distance and personal preferences respective to wide or narrow directivity. The last can be unfortunately only reached by comparing such setups in similar rooms (or even better in your own room).

 

[oursmagenta]

Maybe...
KH80
KH120
8030C

Unfortunately too small for the room ...