• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

JDS Labs Element IV DAC & HP Amp with EQ Review

Rate this DAC & HP Amp

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 14 6.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 59 26.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 145 65.6%

  • Total voters
    221
O.K. so the power supply of the amp is leaking.
Question: is the power supply wide range and DC out (and lightweight) or is the output AC and weighs a lot ?

Interestingly the phenomenon doesn't occur when connected to my DAC, I'm guessing it's getting ground when the DAC is connected, is that safe for the DAC though?, My DAC costs like tens the cost of the amp so rather air on the side of caution if it's unsafe.
Yep, makes sense. It is grounded via the DAC.
Should not be a problem though.
The leakage currents simply pass though audio ground to safety ground.

For people reading this conversation and getting worried.... it has NOTHING to do with the reviewed amp but is about an older amp (element 2).
 
Last edited:
O.K. so the power supply of the amp is leaking.
Question: is the power supply wide range and DC out (and lightweight) or is the output AC and weighs a lot ?


Yep, makes sense. It is grounded via the DAC.
Should not be a problem though.
The leakage currents simply pass though audio ground to safety ground.

For people reading this conversation and getting worried.... it has NOTHING to do with the reviewed amp but is about an older amp (element 2).

These products use AC wall warts with up to 17 VAC outputs. The Element 2 was 16 VAC at 1 amp. Pure AC that is isolated from ground - 2 wires only to the input power barrel plug. These are Class 2 devices with a thermal break device on the primary that opens up in case of excess current. For the OP to get a "shock" from the case seems to imply that there is an insulation breakdown in the transformer core. If this is true then an AC voltmeter connected to earth ground on one meter lead and one of the conductors in the plug on the other meter lead-should show significant AC voltage. Changing the wall wart should fix it in that case.
 
O.K. so the power supply of the amp is leaking.
Question: is the power supply wide range and DC out (and lightweight) or is the output AC and weighs a lot ?


Yep, makes sense. It is grounded via the DAC.
Should not be a problem though.
The leakage currents simply pass through audio ground to safety ground.

For people reading this conversation and getting worried.... it has NOTHING to do with the reviewed amp but is about an older amp (element 2).

The power supply is 16V AC fairly heavy wall wart, the official one that JDS LABS supplies to UK customers,

IMG_20241208_130023.jpg


Wall wart.

IMG_20241208_131352.jpg



AC voltage probe picking up voltage from the amp (not touching the amp) while the amp is plugged in but switched off.

I'm testing another wall wart from a friends EL DAC II tonight so I shall report back then.
 
Last edited:
O.K. so the power supply of the amp is leaking.
Question: is the power supply wide range and DC out (and lightweight) or is the output AC and weighs a lot ?


Yep, makes sense. It is grounded via the DAC.
Should not be a problem though.
The leakage currents simply pass though audio ground to safety ground.

For people reading this conversation and getting worried.... it has NOTHING to do with the reviewed amp but is about an older amp (element 2).
Why is it being discussed here at all? Wasn't there a recent-ish edict to keep review threads on topic so that they remain useful?
 
Why is it being discussed here at all? Wasn't there a recent-ish edict to keep review threads on topic so that they remain useful?
Although it seems it could be useful information for anyone with a wall wart power supplied headphone amp that's experiencing same issue, so might help out any JDS Labs users for instance.
 
Most likely it is a capacitive coupling between primary and secondary winding so very low current.

What sometimes helps is putting the plug in the wall 180 degrees rotated (possible in some E.U. countries) but is not possible for all countries.

When connected to a DAC there is no issue it seems. It won't harm the DAC.
 
Why is it being discussed here at all? Wasn't there a recent-ish edict to keep review threads on topic so that they remain useful?

Sorry, I looked at the original EL AMP II thread and no one had posted for two years, I also posted in hear as I was looking to upgrade to the Element IV if mine was faulty, and in fact I've been so impressed with the EL II that I'm very tempted to grab a Element IV as well, also it's shown how good JBS Labs customers service is!

This was the first time I have listened to an Element AMP or any JDS Labs amp for that matter, and coming from someone that has a Violectric V550 the Element AMP is really all you could ever need for 99% of use cases, it's been a revelation for me how good audio can sound at this price point.
 
The ADI-2 DAC costs $1300, so JDS is at 38% price. Pretty fair IMO.

You can get the RME used for around $700 with some luck. I know used vs new not a fair price comparison but that’s what I’d be tempted to buy.
 
Most likely it is a capacitive coupling between primary and secondary winding so very low current.
Exactly. UL standards allow fair amount of leakage current this way. I have had laptops and other devices cause this tingling sensation.
 
Outlet is grounded ,I have tested using a mains tester plug.

Interestingly the phenomenon doesn't occur when connected to my DAC, I'm guessing it's getting ground when the DAC is connected, is that safe for the DAC though?, My DAC costs like ten times the cost of the amp so rather air on the side of caution if it's unsafe.

Tested again without DAC connected, very apparent tingling touching amp.
I would park the amp if it's leaking voltage to the chassis.
 
Exactly. UL standards allow fair amount of leakage current this way. I have had laptops and other devices cause this tingling sensation.
My Element 3 MK2 does not tingle. It will be interesting to hear if changing wall warts cures the issue.
 
Yes I believe you can adjust left and right independently if that is what you are asking. Pro PLUS runs a AKM 4493 I believe also. There is a review on here and it measures well. I used it to my Atom2 with good results. Only reason I updated to a EL4 was to get rid of the volume potentiometer and wanted to declutter my set up. Also I just like the EL4 and wanted it. I am currently steaming the WiiM Pro Plus via optical into the EL4 from Qobuz. The WiiM has been great honestly. Easy to use and set up. I think you can even used different peq for each output.
I was eyeing the Neutrino because of the size. Wiim Pro Plus is much larger but has analog inputs. Sometimes, I use home made cassettes for listening, this means I definitely need something with a DA in it.
 
AC or DC output, it's still a wall wart. As my example in the $399 Cambridge Audio MXN-10, the power supply is internal and quite compact (See below). It wouldn't take a whole lot of engineering to put something similar in the JDS unit.

It's rated at a 5V/4A output.

Look, Cogito we know you don't want this. You don't see a use case. You prefer other solutions. You've been clear on that.
You probably shouldn't give it another thought.

However with all of the performance, function, well thought out capabilities that are evident in the Element IV (whether they suit your needs or not), I think we can all see it's not lack of engineering that resulted in the use of a wall wart.
To suggest "it wouldn't take a whole lot of engineering" to put the transformer in the case is missing the point.
But it would take a WHOLE LOT of engineering to fit it into THAT case!
Why ruin the product with bulk that can be stuck under the desk?
It's a great form factor: A big, luxurious volume knob! With enough 'base' to support it, but not take away from the space-volume above my desktop. And functionality that customers have requested!

Engineering is beyond 'fitting it in', even at a price point. Among so many other things, engineering considers the end use and the customer's preferences.

I believe JDS Labs developed this in response to vocal customers, who peppered JDS with requests for these features (based on what I 've seen on his blog anyway).
I think it's a great performance result, and a great value. Not for everyone? Okay, what is?

Anyway, there are some good reasons to keep the transformer (or SMPS) separate.

1) Desktop space. Personally, I don't want the extra bulk on my desktop, when my PC, my multiple monitors, my dock, etc. already have floor-bricks.

2) Form factor. Keeping things small is more difficult with large internal components. Plenty of space in the MXN-10, sure. I don't want to keep it on my desk.

3) Internal EMC. Particularly with SMPS (not in this Element, but in general), but also avoiding near-field E/H problems.

4) Regulatory EMC.

5) Regulatory Safety - bringing line power into the case can alter many things about PCB design and product insulation. There is an advantage to using a Class 2 power supply.

6) Component supply chain issues - much simpler when adapting to line voltages in other countries, but also in adapting to supply & demand issues in the component market.

There are others, but to me personally, the big one is the desktop space.
I agree, it sounds attractive to power from USB-C PD, but that certainly seems like it could introduce SMPS noise, which may be detrimental to the path (or require additional filtering/noise suppression), not to mention raising the cost.

By the way, although the MXN-10 in your example uses a 5V/4A supply module, the JDS Labs Element IV can supply 3.2W into 32 Ohms, which requires higher voltage swing to achieve. The MXN-10 output is 2Vrms, correct? Does it have a headphone output? How much power can it drive into 32 Ohms?
 
It did!

Mate came round last night who owns an EL DAC II with the same uk specced wall wart and it cured the problem!, emailed JDS Labs just in time to stop them sending out an amp.
Nice!
 
I know power conditioners are a very sore subject here, but some of them in a <$200 range are also basically just isolators and seem to also help. Furman PST8D... cured my GFs occasional hum issues years ago, her cat for some reason hated the Toslink optical and tore it up (wrong color?) . The digital copper connection had noise (which didn't bother her at first, but annoyed me). That simple power outlet solved it (I am in zero way associated and don't even know if the product still exists).
 
Back
Top Bottom