JDS Labs Element III Review (DAC & Amp)

[restorer-john]

fair enough. I didn't mean it in a bad way anyway. To be more precise I mean products from some companies based in China.

Just call it Chinese HiFi. Nobody could legitimately take 'offense' to that. And if they do, they need to harden up.

Japanese HiFi, UK HiFi, US made HiFi etc. They all have well deserved connotations/reputations they have earned over many decades. The Chinese have only been in the HiFi game for a short time and they will earn their own reputation in time. Right now, it's a giant sea of mediocrity with some outstanding examples of good quality.

 

[Carlo2AC]

Just call it Chinese HiFi. Nobody could legitimately take 'offense' to that. And if they do, they need to harden up.

Japanese HiFi, UK HiFi, US made HiFi etc. They all have well deserved connotations/reputations they have earned over many decades. The Chinese have only been in the HiFi game for a short time and they will earn their own reputation in time. Right now, it's a giant sea of mediocrity with some outstanding examples of good quality.

Thing is this was asked by Amir himself way back

Is the derogatory part of it something in the NA community?

I for one seeing as though i don't live in NA every time i hear the term ChiFi i think of products in regards of great bang-for-buck, not something bad.

 

[Nathan Raymond]

From an economical aspect, I think made-from-US products just cannot compete in price versus made-in-china products because the labor pay gap is just so skewed.

For those ethically/environmentally inclined, China produces most of it's electrical power from coal, which is cheap but very polluting and affects the whole planet. Also, shipping goods overseas generally means large cargo ships, and because international waters have no environmental regulations, cargo ships burn an extremely inexpensive and polluting fuel - bunker fuel - which is solid at room temperature and requires a separate system on the ships to heat up the fuel so it will flow as a liquid. Count all the cargo ships together and treat them like a country and they are the 7th largest polluter in the world. Respiratory diseases are so high near large ports everywhere in the world because of the exhaust from the ships impacts people living near the port. Also, in China there are very few environmental regulations and dumping from industry has polluted a significant amount of the groundwater there, which is causing many increased health problems for the people of China since that water is used for crops, food production, and drinking water with very little oversight.

Buying goods made in a country with more environmental regulations and less polluting power sources will definitely cost more, but you may find it worth the extra cost knowing that the negative impacts on people and the planet are significantly less.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Question for Amir/John: is the motion/feel of the encoder knob? stepless? soft steps? clicky steps?

Does it push down to click?

 

[JimmyBuckets]

I'd vote this quite positively if the transition across gain was totally glitchless but doesn't seem like it is.

My RME ADI-2 DAC has crossover noise from low to high in Auto mode and it cost 3X as much.

 

[amirm]

Question for Amir/John: is the motion/feel of the encoder knob? stepless? soft steps? clicky steps?

Does it push down to click?

It does push down to click. It is smooth when turning, no detents.

 

[Hxx]

I think most if not every comment here about this product's price all boils down to a comparison between whatever is cheapest but also has the highest measured specs which basically all come down to SMSL, Topping, or some other extent of ChiFi.
From an economical aspect, I think made-from-US products just cannot compete in price versus made-in-china products because the labor pay gap is just so skewed.
Everyone's preference on value might differ anyway.
Oh and I can't recall how many DAC/AMP perform better than EL 3 but cheaper and not from Topping/SMSL. Can someone make a chart?

in a world where the dx3 pro+ is $200 and the Ex5 is $350, i struggle to justify its price/performance but it looks cool

 

[imagidominc]

Huh, I didn't expect this. The Element 2 was already a great amp.

 

[Trell]

My RME ADI-2 DAC has crossover noise from low to high in Auto mode and it cost 3X as much.

I’ve not noticed that on my RME ADI-2 DAC, unless you mean that the relays make audible clicks?

 

[Trell]

Company says they left the "SINAD race" and focused on good enough performance and added functionality. This level of performance shows that is indeed the case:

This is refreshing to read.

 

[Robbo99999]

The measured performance might be inaudible, but it's still a potentiometer. There is a note from amir "Your sample may vary" The spec is up to 0.6 dB. typically at low volume. 0.6 dB difference at a low volume can be audible. It will depend how sensitive you are to this of course but it don't fall into "impossible to hear" territory.

I must admit the lure & promise of perfect channel balance is a good one! But I just don't perceive any such issues with my potentiometer in my JDS Labs Atom Amp.

I have RMAA open right now just to test this, loopback from the Atom's RCAs out into my PC line-in. I have 1.7 dB imbalance at 9:00, narrows to 0.3 dB at 11:00, 0.2 dB at 1:00 and is within 0.1 dB anywhere past 3:00. I would characterize 9:00 as obviously imbalanced and 11:00 as close but maybe something isn't right in the soundstage. As the level passes 12:00 I think I can't hear it anymore.

Of course, this is a lottery, each pot is different so there will be the 1% of people who are +/- 0.2 dB over the whole sweep, but I didn't win that lottery. Since the time I bought my amp, I believe that JDS has started to better tests the channel matching for the Atom+. Still the imbalance between 7:00 and 11:00, which is where I would run my HD 650 on low gain typically, makes the Element III more attractive.

Kudos to you for measuring it. I bought my Atom Amp sometime in late 2019 or early 2020 - re relevance on timing of quality control improvements. After doing a bit of research it looks like the JDS Labs Atom Amp volume pots were hand-matched from May 2020 onwards, so it looks likely I probably didn't get a hand-matched one, yet channel balance has not been a detectable problem for me:

Review and Measurements of New JDS Labs Atom Headphone Amp

That's the point. Isn't normal it breaks out of nothing. It breaks from your own weight and gravity. The plastic is too thin and not good quality. I'm just catching up with this thread. Why would somebody put their weight on the transformer for the Atom??? :facepalm:

www.audiosciencereview.com

Couldn't find any direct quotes from the manufacturer that they've done this though, but didn't look too hard.

 

[vallandar]

I must admit the lure & promise of perfect channel balance is a good one! But I just don't perceive any such issues with my potentiometer in my JDS Labs Atom Amp.

Issues with pots can ruin an otherwise great experience. E.g. my Element II has issues from 6 to 9 o'clock, with one side being completely silent from 6 to 7 o'clock. Going digital is the right decision for the Element III, especially at the price. It prevents unhappy buyers and probably also many support cases.

After doing a bit of research it looks like the JDS Labs Atom Amp volume pots were hand-matched from May 2020 onwards, so it looks likely I probably didn't get a hand-matched one, yet channel balance has not been a detectable problem for me.

I ordered mine beginning of May 2020.

 

[PeteL]

I must admit the lure & promise of perfect channel balance is a good one! But I just don't perceive any such issues with my potentiometer in my JDS Labs Atom Amp.

Fair enough, I have absolutely no doubt the Atom is an excellent amp, but the original comment was about someone that felt the "performance" of the Element 3 was "barely acceptable". I just feel there might be a bit too much emphasis on the Sinad at 1k, it's the first thing we see the main charts are ranked like that, etc. My point was why a performance metric differential that show rigorously inaudible distortion and noise could be just barely ok, where some other measurements shows accomplishments that can shows perfection in some place that the benefit can, at least potentially be heard is ignored in the comparison, is to me a bit misguided. I do think that for many "performance" equate "Sinad at 1K" It's obviously not that.

 

[odyo]

Fancy but meh

 

[nyxnyxnyx]

I did read the blog post and something piqued my curiosity, he said that he perceived that this amp sounds better than his previous products.
What do you guys think about it? Like is there a possible factor for it to sound better than his previous product(s)?
JDS has pretty much always been transparent with us so I don't take this as bait or false mouth-to-mouth marketing

 

[Robbo99999]

Fair enough, I have absolutely no doubt the Atom is an excellent amp, but the original comment was about someone that felt the "performance" of the Element 3 was "barely acceptable". I just feel there might be a bit too much emphasis on the Sinad at 1k, it's the first thing we see the main charts are ranked like that, etc. My point was why a performance metric differential that show rigorously inaudible distortion and noise could be just barely ok, where some other measurements shows accomplishments that can shows perfection in some place that the benefit can, at least potentially be heard is ignored in the comparison, is to me a bit misguided. I do think that for many "performance" equate "Sinad at 1K" It's obviously not that.

Yeah, the performance of this Element III is good, it doesn't need better SINAD numbers.

 

[Zensō]

I did read the blog post and something piqued my curiosity, he said that he perceived that this amp sounds better than his previous products.
What do you guys think about it? Like is there a possible factor for it to sound better than his previous product(s)?
JDS has pretty much always been transparent with us so I don't take this as bait or false mouth-to-mouth marketing

The “audible improvement” statement in the blog post was in reference to better channel matching due to the digital encoder that replaced the analog potentiometer in the Element II.

“More simply, measurable performance is so high that analog potentiometers are the greatest enemy of high fidelity listening. Channel imbalance from an analog pot at a non-ideal position can ruin your listening, but you will not hear an improvement from SINAD much beyond 90 dB.

Channel balance of common analog potentiometers falters at around -25 dBFS. Our best hand matched pots achieve good balance to -40 dBFS (good, not perfect). Element III’s channel balance is audibly perfect all the way down to -127.5 dBFS.

We custom designed Element III’s encoder to approximate the rotational feel of previous Elements. It turns freely 360°, meaning no detents or stopping points.

Using Element III throughout development, I’ve found myself listening to music more quietly than ever before because of the fine resolution and balance achievable at low volumes–even discernable with 300 ohm headphones. You’re not forced to boost volume to hear a decent soundstage.”

 

[MRC01]

He mentions more than channel balance and soundstage, but also fine resolution, which suggests some benefit from not having an analog potentiometer in the signal path.

 

[TurtlePaul]

I did read the blog post and something piqued my curiosity, he said that he perceived that this amp sounds better than his previous products.
What do you guys think about it? Like is there a possible factor for it to sound better than his previous product(s)?
JDS has pretty much always been transparent with us so I don't take this as bait or false mouth-to-mouth marketing

That one poster hammed him up and asked him for flowery prose and he delivered. I am sure as a business person he can't just tell the old-school audiophiles "scope readings speak for themself" and still make sales. A huge portion of the market has no idea what the meaning of most of the figures in his (accurate) comparison chart.

Here at ASR I think that the scope readings do speak for themselves and either EL II or EL III are audibly transparent with exception for the EL II volume control. The perfect channel matching audibly would be quite improved and nearly everything else should be beyond the transparency threshold (and therefore not audible).

The only other figure which is arguably not transparent is the SINAD @ 50 mv. This is important for the most sensitive IEMs. A handful of IEMs and very efficient headphones are able to deliver > 94 SPL with a signal of 50 mV, so those are getting to the point where you may be able to hear hiss when connected to the JDS Element and the new Element would have 4 dB less hiss. The hiss would still be very very quiet.

 

[MRC01]

... The only other figure which is arguably not transparent is the SINAD @ 50 mv. This is important for the most sensitive IEMs. ...

Not only for sensitive IEMs but also for people who listen at low to moderate levels in unusually quiet environments. The Element III's SNR of 85 dB @ 50 mV is "good" but not "great".