JDS Labs Element II DAC and Headphone Amp Review

[cburbs]

Thanks that is what I thought but wasn't sure.

 

[Windofrce]

Is this better than Atom in combination with Khadas Tone Board? As I can see Khadas and Atom is measuring much better ?

 

[PPP]

Is this better than Atom in combination with Khadas Tone Board? As I can see Khadas and Atom is measuring much better ?

Khadas is great but fall short in dynamic range. So strictly speaking the latter is not measured much better.
With that said you won’t here the difference at all between these two combination.
The only audible problem they have is channel imbalance.

So choose the one looks good to you. People complain about khadas not having a case. The upgraded version (QXD1) solves that problem but is more expensive.

 

[Windofrce]

Khadas is great but fall short in dynamic range. So strictly speaking the latter is not measured much better.
With that said you won’t here the difference at all between these two combination.
The only audible problem they have is channel imbalance.

So choose the one looks good to you. People complain about khadas not having a case. The upgraded version (QXD1) solves that problem but is more expensive.

I thing dynamic range is not issue if using Khadas just with an AMP, like in my case. Problem potentially raises noise when used with an active preamp and an external system. Am I right?

Blog post from JDS about Khadas Tone Board:
I was shocked to see Tone’s Noise measurements crushed by DACs from 2012 because of its grounding layout (>20dB worse than expected). Khadas made otherwise excellent design choices. I reviewed the Tone schematic and was pleased to see they utilize similar regulation, decoupling, impedance, and ESD protection choices as we implement. The grounding issue is not a concern when using Tone with a headphone amplifier; it potentially raises noise when used with an active preamp and an external system, which is an increasingly common setup. I had to establish a separate analog ground path to see reasonable performance. The only other DAC requiring this accommodation was a reference board I tested years ago. Tone’s USB regulation is good, not perfect. The USB ports on my Ryzen test rig are noisy, and Tone measured about par with our aging OL DACs in terms of THD+N. Last, the USB Type C port intermittently disconnected. Rotating the cable 180 degrees solved (bad luck?). Still, these are not the kinds of experiences I want to pass along to JDS Labs customers.

All of that being said, Tone performs well in areas like jitter and linearity. As a standalone board, no FCC/CE certifications are provided. A pre-EMC check on our spectrum analyzer shows low radiated emissions, thus, anyone implementing Tone should have no problem obtaining FCC/CE certification.

As for powering DACs via USB, I respect the choice and cost savings of eliminating a power adapter. We sold ODAC and ODAC RevB for years this way, and it generally worked well. HiFi audio is a luxury. Manufacturers need to raise the bar, and I believe a dedicated AC transformer is the right choice.

 

[PPP]

I thing dynamic range is not issue if using Khadas just with an AMP, like in my case. Problem potentially raises noise when used with an active preamp and an external system. Am I right?

Right. Depends on how you use it.

When the DAC noise is high, you can't lower your volume much on the DAC. Otherwise the SNR will be bad. So you have to use DAC close to full volume, and use low noise preamp/HP amp to adjust the volume.

If the DAC is low in noise, you can basically ignore preamp/HP amp's volume control (because they cause noise and channel imbalance), and adjust volume on the DAC side only.

Or you can just double the price and get QXD1, designed by the same author. It has xlr output, a nice case, great dynamic range, no ess hump.

Also, having one unit such as the element 2 here might reduce your chance to get ground loop. if you buy your amp/hp amp separately, and use various power source/data line, with single ended i/o, you are very likely to get ground loop hiss.

 

[Windofrce]

Right. Depends on how you use it.

When the DAC noise is high, you can't lower your volume much on the DAC. Otherwise the SNR will be bad. So you have to use DAC close to full volume, and use low noise preamp/HP amp to adjust the volume.

If the DAC is low in noise, you can basically ignore preamp/HP amp's volume control (because they cause noise and channel imbalance), and adjust volume on the DAC side only.

Or you can just double the price and get QXD1, designed by the same author. It has xlr output, a nice case, great dynamic range, no ess hump.

Also, having one unit such as the element 2 here might reduce your chance to get ground loop. if you buy your amp/hp amp separately, and use various power source/data line, with single ended i/o, you are very likely to get ground loop hiss.

I am really satisfied because I am using Khadas just with an amp so there are no possibilities to have dynamic range issues or similar. I also have 3D printed case to match Atom dimensions and it looks very good. No ground loop or anything. Khadas DAC is very revealing and produce ton of details. Thanks for detailed answer btw

 

[thibag]

I am really satisfied because I am using Khadas just with an amp so there are no possibilities to have dynamic range issues or similar. I also have 3D printed case to match Atom dimensions and it looks very good. No ground loop or anything. Khadas DAC is very revealing and produce ton of details. Thanks for detailed answer btw

Would you mind sending a picture of your Khadas with its case ?

 

[Windofrce]

Would you mind sending a picture of your Khadas with its case ?

Sure

 

[Kebel87]

Hi everyone,

noob here, thanks for welcoming me in this community. I ordered my first headphones last week after a lot of hesitation. I went with Hifiman Sundara.

Now for the amp/dac, after discarding Schiit I think I’m locked into JDS labs. I’m trying to decide whether I should go with Element 2 or Atom amp + Atom DAC.

Based on the reviews alone, Atom Amp and DAC both appears to be superior to Element 2. However, if I’m not mistaking Element 2 is the AIO El Amp + El DAC. Element 2 uses 4493 instead of 4490, which is supposed to be better isn’t it?

As for the amp, El amp is basically an Atom with more power.

I don’t get why/how can Element 2 be somehow slightly worse than Atoms? I understand Price/value might not be as high, but performance?

 

[Veri]

I don’t get why/how can Element 2 be somehow slightly worse than Atoms? I understand Price/value might not be as high, but performance?

Element 2 was measured over its amplified output. It is not in fact worse than Atom DAC! The knob on the el amp/element is so much better in real life use compared to Atom amp's tiny knob. I would recommend going Element 2 if you can afford it. Unless you are a big IEM user, Element 2's 50mW output is less stellar than Atom. If you don't use IEMs, Element 2 is great, go for it

 

[Kebel87]

Element 2 was measured over its amplified output. It is not in fact worse than Atom DAC! The knob on the el amp/element is so much better in real life use compared to Atom amp's tiny knob. I would recommend going Element 2 if you can afford it. Unless you are a big IEM user, Element 2's 50mW output is less stellar than Atom. If you don't use IEMs, Element 2 is great, go for it

Thanks for your time and explanation. I can afford either options so money is not an issue. i was trying to figure how much (if any) performance I loose going with Element II over the Atom combo. But yeah, the volume knob is beyond sexy!

Last questions, things that bugs me (being a noob) :

- Will I miss the optical in? I intend to use my iPad Pro (USB-C) as source, but if I some point I wanted to upgrade to a streamer most of the cheapest options doesn’t output USB, only optical.

- If I decide to you a raspberry PI as streamer at some point, without going Hifiberry, will the performance be acceptable? I was initially thinking Hifiberry but again, it’s optical out.

thanks!

 

[Veri]

Last questions, things that bugs me (being a noob) :

- Will I miss the optical in? I intend to use my iPad Pro (USB-C) as source, but if I some point I wanted to upgrade to a streamer most of the cheapest options doesn’t output USB, only optical.

- If I decide to you a raspberry PI as streamer at some point, without going Hifiberry, will the performance be acceptable? I was initially thinking Hifiberry but again, it’s optical out.

thanks!

No optical in is a pity. If it worries you, you could get a DAC like the E30 and pair it with any good amp (magni heresy, EL Amp, ...), that should future proof you..

 

[idiomatically]

Element 2 with a Raspberry Pi4 over USB works a treat I do this at work at times. I have both the Original Element and the upgraded Element 2, they are great bits of kit imo for driving cans. That volume knob is a beast

 

[Kebel87]

Element 2 with a Raspberry Pi4 over USB works a treat I do this at work at times. I have both the Original Element and the upgraded Element 2, they are great bits of kit imo for driving cans. That volume knob is a beast

Thanks! Would you happen to know if I could install Volumio free and AirPlay music from my iPhone on the RPi with quality?

 

[idiomatically]

Yep you can do that, I have used Volumio in the past before I had Roon with my Raspberry Pi’s. My wife uses Spotify Connect alot as its easier for her to use then firing up Roon, though she is using Roon more and more these days to access our own library of music.

I have another friend who is an Apple Music user and she Airplays all the time to our RP4 setups. I have one in every room in the house basically, they are very flexible. SQ is dependant on the source obviously but I dont think you will have any quality issues. Apple Airplay from memory is a lossless ALAC 16/44 stream.

JDS Labs stuff is really good, and they are great to deal with. I have a mix of JDS and Schiit gear with a random RME dac thrown in. I still use my orginal Element at home with my pc and HD650 headphones. While at work I use the Element 2 with Campfire Audio IEM’s.

 

[panther]

Ordered one last night. Been a little hesitant especially when I saw the Schiit Modius. But I’ve appreciated JDS Labs quick response on a few questions I’ve had as well a show the form factor of the Element on the desk. Still wondering a little bit if I’ll miss anything not using XLR. Will also be setup with Vanatoo T0 (thinking of going to Kanto Tuk a
SO) as I saw a previous poster wrote. Wonder if I’ll experience a similar opinion.

 

[Darwin]

DX3 Pro is half the price..

"There was thundering amount of power with ample headroom -- something I don't get with Topping DX3 Pro."

Topping also has complaints about high failure rates and terrible support.

 

[JohnYang1997]

"There was thundering amount of power with ample headroom -- something I don't get with Topping DX3 Pro."

Topping also has complaints about high failure rates and terrible support.

says who?

 

[imagidominc]

Just wanna say that I had an amazing home concert with the Element 2 powering my HD600 - I think that this is the best the HD600 could possibly sound. Listening to Tool, Marilyn Manson, and Opeth, no matter what track I played the band came alive with strong bass, smooth mids and sparkly treble. I could not stop head banging.

 

[catalogguy]

I got myself all worked up for the Element 2 and now there is so much buzz around the Topping L30. I am thinking about the L30 just to try it as the price is so good. But if I plug it into my PC analog output and later decide I want to add a DAC, then I will have 2 boxes and, I expect, 2 power cords

The Element 2 is so nice putting it all in one box. No interconnects and only 1 power cord. Has anyone tried both products ... and is there any comparative performance information? I want to drive the Sennheiser HD-6xx. The Creek amp I thought would drive them turns out to work well with low impedance headphones but not high impedance like the ones I bought. Any insight or advise will be appreciated!