Report back on your Element II impressions. I’m a big fan of the unit.
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JDS Labs Element II DAC and Headphone Amp Review
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Bernard23
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Interesting. initial thoughts after using my 5 track headphone test playlist. JDS is more open, more space, better microdynamics, less warm. Marantz is slower sounding, less detail, and definitely bass heavy. Tried the Marantz DAC into the JDS amp and it's better again, so maybe I swap the element for an EL amp and keep the Marantz as a DAC. It's close though, and not entirely sure it's worth spending more cash on. In fairness to the Marantz and the reviews, it's a great piece of kit, if a little expensive, or was when it was on sale.
UPDATE: Several hours later, and the conclusion is that the JDS combo is the best option with my phones and music. The Marantz DAC isn't noticeably different from the JDS, so no point in keeping it. I prefer the JDS presentation of scale and pace of the music, it's a toe tapper for sure. Tonally it's fine, the bright 325e are kept under control, and my hemps are capable of serious thump, both in mid bass but also leading edges etc, picked strings, snare and 16ths and triplets on ride cymbals. In this sense, the percussive ability is much better than the warm and smooth Marantz.
Of course, the big caveat is the phones I am using. Grado hardly the most neutral on the planet, though the hemps and the newer x series sound more balanced than previous incarnations. That said, crank this up with the 325es to just over sensible limits, and it's a bit of a rock / metal head rush. Love it!
UPDATE: Several hours later, and the conclusion is that the JDS combo is the best option with my phones and music. The Marantz DAC isn't noticeably different from the JDS, so no point in keeping it. I prefer the JDS presentation of scale and pace of the music, it's a toe tapper for sure. Tonally it's fine, the bright 325e are kept under control, and my hemps are capable of serious thump, both in mid bass but also leading edges etc, picked strings, snare and 16ths and triplets on ride cymbals. In this sense, the percussive ability is much better than the warm and smooth Marantz.
Of course, the big caveat is the phones I am using. Grado hardly the most neutral on the planet, though the hemps and the newer x series sound more balanced than previous incarnations. That said, crank this up with the 325es to just over sensible limits, and it's a bit of a rock / metal head rush. Love it!
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Bernard23
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The more I use this, the more I like it, it's just so damn musical. I've been painting walls all day as I'm refurbing my entire house, so to relax I've opened a bottle of shiraz and cranked my Grado 325e up with some pounding AC/DC and grinning a lot, as you do.
One thing I'm not sure about, which is the best output setting on Qobuz; I've installed the XMOS drivers, but I get a choice of outputs under the XMOS 'folder' - I can choose Wasapi, wasapi exclusive, DS, and XMOS Audio 2.0 ST 30DA. I mean wow, that's like a Japanese car spec denomination from 1993!
I'm not overly concerned,as both Wasapi exc and the Japanses car setting are both exclusive as determined from the interfering youtube test, and they sound identical to me; just intrigued as to what the differences are.
One thing I'm not sure about, which is the best output setting on Qobuz; I've installed the XMOS drivers, but I get a choice of outputs under the XMOS 'folder' - I can choose Wasapi, wasapi exclusive, DS, and XMOS Audio 2.0 ST 30DA. I mean wow, that's like a Japanese car spec denomination from 1993!
I'm not overly concerned,as both Wasapi exc and the Japanses car setting are both exclusive as determined from the interfering youtube test, and they sound identical to me; just intrigued as to what the differences are.
Bernard23
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No I don't think so:
From the user manual:
Element II accepts two methods of audio input: Digital input via USB, or Analog input via RCA jacks. Connecting an RCA cable mechanically bypasses the integrated DAC, so that the amplifier only plays audio from your external source
From the user manual:
Element II accepts two methods of audio input: Digital input via USB, or Analog input via RCA jacks. Connecting an RCA cable mechanically bypasses the integrated DAC, so that the amplifier only plays audio from your external source
Hi! This is my first post here, and I have my Element II since 2020. Bought mostly because of this test/recommendation, the looks of the "knob" and JDS Labs reputation for "objective" audio. I love almost everything about it, but...
The channel imbalance is absolutely killing me. I knew about the measurements and the imbalance wasn't too much of an issue with 600 Ohm headphones. However I recently started using sensitive 32 Ohm headphones which means I have to set the volume in Windows to 10-15% on low gain to get out of the channel imbalance area (6 o'clock to 8 o'clock).
I know JDS might do a potentiometer swap if I ask, they apparently have done this for others. Or I could swap the pot myself. But even then the channel imbalance most likely won't go away 100%, and as I'm located outside of the US shipping to and from isn't cheap.
Thus my question: Are there actually any alternative DAC/Amp Combos <1000$ with the same subjective qualities (build quality, understated looks, no display, size) as the Element II but with a digital volume control?
Would love to hear your thoughts on the channel imbalance, potentiometer swaps or potential alternative recommendations.
The channel imbalance is absolutely killing me. I knew about the measurements and the imbalance wasn't too much of an issue with 600 Ohm headphones. However I recently started using sensitive 32 Ohm headphones which means I have to set the volume in Windows to 10-15% on low gain to get out of the channel imbalance area (6 o'clock to 8 o'clock).
I know JDS might do a potentiometer swap if I ask, they apparently have done this for others. Or I could swap the pot myself. But even then the channel imbalance most likely won't go away 100%, and as I'm located outside of the US shipping to and from isn't cheap.
Thus my question: Are there actually any alternative DAC/Amp Combos <1000$ with the same subjective qualities (build quality, understated looks, no display, size) as the Element II but with a digital volume control?
Would love to hear your thoughts on the channel imbalance, potentiometer swaps or potential alternative recommendations.
>Thus my question: Are there actually any alternative DAC/Amp Combos <1000$ with the same subjective qualities (build quality, understated looks, no display, size) as the Element II but with a digital volume control?
DAC/Amp combo with digital volume control does not work the same way as your current analog control. Yes it's free of channel imbalance, but it lowers the SNR as the DAC noise is not attenuated (while your analog pot can attenuate DAC noise at the same time when it attenuate the signal). You can achieve exactly the same thing by volume attenuation on your operating system or player software, and have identical result. So IMHO when using IEMs why not lower your Element's volume digitally on your computer (OS or player software) by 10 dB, and continue using the analog pot? You get the best of both worlds.
Element has 114db SNR so even if you lower digitally by 10 db, you still get superb transparent result (104db which is better than 94db SNR CD quality).
No, you won't find DAC/Amp combos with the requirements you have. Element is expensive because it's nice looking / feeling knob and enclosure cost a lot to CNC! Later JDS released the atom series using plastics and significantly cut the price by more than half. There are a lot of DAC/Amp combos introduced here, measures very well. But they don't meet your requirements --- they usually have very ugly display and ugly fonts, and their volume knob feels cheap and produce loud clicking noise when turning.
> Would love to hear your thoughts on the channel imbalance, potentiometer swaps or potential alternative recommendations.
Try lowering your OS/player software volume by 10-20db first. Most likely it solves your problem entirely.
If you don't feel happy about it (which means you hear the DAC noise floor), purchasing a DAC/Amp combo with digital volume control won't help you. Unless there's a minus gain option offered by the amp so you can preserve SNR.
You can swap the pot by yourself. You just need to solder it off and replace it by a new one. Very simple and straightforward.
Or simply mod by adding a resistor there along with the pot to attenuate the volume in analog domain.
You can consider buying a separate headphone amp, or a dac/amp stack, with minus gain, but you need to be aware that you will no longer have this nice looking/feeling knob. Amps such as Topping L30/L50 measures well but lots of people complaining about the knob feeling, and the minus gain offered most likely won't solve your problem (that gain level does not have lower noise compared to normal gain. you can see it from the measurement). and you'll end up with too many gadgets on your desktop and cable management issues.
An alternative is to buy analog volume control but not using a pot. Amps such as SMSL SH-9 has relay-based volume control. So it preserves SNR while keeps perfect channel balance. Again you have the same issue as above -- ugly knob, clicking noise, less desktop space, and cable management issues.
For Dac/Amp combo, with $1000 you can also consider the mighty ADI-2 DAC, the best DAC money can buy, which has a good IEM output in addition to the normal headphone output. The IEM jack has minus gain and super low noise so with digital volume control you don't lose too much SNR. It also gives you tons of features (headphone crossfeed, headphone EQ, etc) you cannot get from competitors, and very good support.
DAC/Amp combo with digital volume control does not work the same way as your current analog control. Yes it's free of channel imbalance, but it lowers the SNR as the DAC noise is not attenuated (while your analog pot can attenuate DAC noise at the same time when it attenuate the signal). You can achieve exactly the same thing by volume attenuation on your operating system or player software, and have identical result. So IMHO when using IEMs why not lower your Element's volume digitally on your computer (OS or player software) by 10 dB, and continue using the analog pot? You get the best of both worlds.
Element has 114db SNR so even if you lower digitally by 10 db, you still get superb transparent result (104db which is better than 94db SNR CD quality).
No, you won't find DAC/Amp combos with the requirements you have. Element is expensive because it's nice looking / feeling knob and enclosure cost a lot to CNC! Later JDS released the atom series using plastics and significantly cut the price by more than half. There are a lot of DAC/Amp combos introduced here, measures very well. But they don't meet your requirements --- they usually have very ugly display and ugly fonts, and their volume knob feels cheap and produce loud clicking noise when turning.
> Would love to hear your thoughts on the channel imbalance, potentiometer swaps or potential alternative recommendations.
Try lowering your OS/player software volume by 10-20db first. Most likely it solves your problem entirely.
If you don't feel happy about it (which means you hear the DAC noise floor), purchasing a DAC/Amp combo with digital volume control won't help you. Unless there's a minus gain option offered by the amp so you can preserve SNR.
You can swap the pot by yourself. You just need to solder it off and replace it by a new one. Very simple and straightforward.
Or simply mod by adding a resistor there along with the pot to attenuate the volume in analog domain.
You can consider buying a separate headphone amp, or a dac/amp stack, with minus gain, but you need to be aware that you will no longer have this nice looking/feeling knob. Amps such as Topping L30/L50 measures well but lots of people complaining about the knob feeling, and the minus gain offered most likely won't solve your problem (that gain level does not have lower noise compared to normal gain. you can see it from the measurement). and you'll end up with too many gadgets on your desktop and cable management issues.
An alternative is to buy analog volume control but not using a pot. Amps such as SMSL SH-9 has relay-based volume control. So it preserves SNR while keeps perfect channel balance. Again you have the same issue as above -- ugly knob, clicking noise, less desktop space, and cable management issues.
For Dac/Amp combo, with $1000 you can also consider the mighty ADI-2 DAC, the best DAC money can buy, which has a good IEM output in addition to the normal headphone output. The IEM jack has minus gain and super low noise so with digital volume control you don't lose too much SNR. It also gives you tons of features (headphone crossfeed, headphone EQ, etc) you cannot get from competitors, and very good support.
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Just pulled the trigger on the ADI-2 DAC FS, looks exactly like what I want.. Also looking forward to the additional features, I've been wanting to toy with crossfeed and EQ for a while.
At ~850$ here in Europe it's actually not that much more expensive. The total for my Element II was just over 500$ after adding up the shipping costs and import duties.
Yes, that is absolutely true and what I've been doing. The Element II has a very low noise floor and is an allround great DAC/amplifier so the sound quality hasn't suffered. The thing I'm most afraid of is accidentally setting the Windows volume to 100% (or some software doing it) and blowing out my eardrums
Thank you for understanding this point. It's great that they exist but they're not for me.
I'll try that in the future. Buying single pots of this type is surprisingly expensive, with no guarantee that they'll have less channel imbalance. I opened up the unit to have a look but the PCB doesn't seem to come out easily: the knob is held in place solidly, and I'm not sure if I need to unsolder the potentiometer first (if the knob is held in place with glue?) or just pull a lot harder on the knob to slide it off.
If anyone has done a pot swap on the Element II themselves, it would be great to know what the proper order is.
> Just pulled the trigger on the ADI-2 DAC FS, looks exactly like what I want.. Also looking forward to the additional features, I've been wanting to toy with crossfeed and EQ for a while. At ~850$ here in Europe it's actually not that much more expensive. The total for my Element II was just over 500$ after adding up the shipping costs and import duties.
If you live in Europe you definitely should consider RME. Wonderful product that no one else is able to produce. Good service and always keep adding features to existing machines via software updates.
Even though you said no display in your first post, you will surely love the display of ADI-2.
You can always turn the display off via AutoDarkMode, but believe me it's so enjoyable to watch : - )
> Thank you for understanding this point. It's great that they exist but they're not for me.
Sadly not everyone appreciate good quality designs. I don't think they sold a lot of Elements, especially comparing to their earlier success of Objective2. I believe JDS's sale number rose like a rocket only after they launched Atom.
> If anyone has done a pot swap on the Element II themselves, it would be great to know what the proper order is.
I once did it on the EL amp which is quite similar. you just need extra force to pull the knob off... or you can ask john what the right procedure is. He usually replies within 5 mins...
If you live in Europe you definitely should consider RME. Wonderful product that no one else is able to produce. Good service and always keep adding features to existing machines via software updates.
Even though you said no display in your first post, you will surely love the display of ADI-2.
You can always turn the display off via AutoDarkMode, but believe me it's so enjoyable to watch : - )
> Thank you for understanding this point. It's great that they exist but they're not for me.
Sadly not everyone appreciate good quality designs. I don't think they sold a lot of Elements, especially comparing to their earlier success of Objective2. I believe JDS's sale number rose like a rocket only after they launched Atom.
> If anyone has done a pot swap on the Element II themselves, it would be great to know what the proper order is.
I once did it on the EL amp which is quite similar. you just need extra force to pull the knob off... or you can ask john what the right procedure is. He usually replies within 5 mins...
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Element III was just released today. Just wish it had more power for my planars. JDS makes such good looking stuff.
jdslabs.com
Element III MK2 _ Shop JDS LABS
We’ve reimagined our flagship amp+DAC to create a listening experience you will notice and appreciate. Element III operates on our second-generation XMOS hardware and firmware, blissfully integrated with a custom encoder. You’ll hear perfect channel balance down to the black noise floor...
OP
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I just post the Element III review: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/jds-labs-element-iii-review-dac-amp.30485/
If this had been chinese brand then it wouldn't be in recom. list.This is a review and detailed measurements of the JDS Labs Element II DAC and headphone amplifier. It was kindly sent to me by JDS Labs. The Element II costs US $399 and is a marriage of the JDS EL DAC II ($299) and EL AMP II ($249). So you save good amount of money by purchasing the combination.
From the outside, the Element II looks just like the EL AMP II which is a good thing:
The same marquee volume control adorns the Element II as it did with EL AMP II. The back side is a combo of the two products:
You lose the coax and s/pdif digital inputs which the EL DAC II has.
The gain button does what you imagine. The power button has double function where you hold it to change modes from RCA in the back and headphone in the front. I did turn the unit off and on by accident trying to change mode. This, combined with it being in the back, causes some usability issue. As is lack of a digital display indicating what is playing.
But oh, that volume control!
Audio Measurements
I made a couple of measurements to assure that the heart of the DAC II lives inside the Element II and that is the case:
View attachment 39762
View attachment 39763
View attachment 39764
View attachment 39765
So let's move on to the headphone output starting with power into 300 ohm load:
View attachment 39766
It is clear we are bound by the performance of the DAC which is lower than my reference Topping DX3 Pro. Noise level is clearly higher. The AMP II though comes through with higher power than the DX3 Pro.
Switching to 33 ohm load emphasizes the amplifier more, allowing the Element II to do better at max power:
View attachment 39767
Testing for noise level that might be there with sensitive IEMs at 50 millivolts output we get:
View attachment 39768
View attachment 39769
Clearly the DAC is pulling the unit back as the AMP II did much better.
Channel balance was much worse than AMP II for some reason (may be due to this test being in high gain):
View attachment 39770
Output impedance was comfortably low:
View attachment 39771
Listening Tests
While measurements often were dominated by the performance of the DAC, that did not translate into lack of performance subjectively. Here, the amplifier was front and center providing exceptional fidelity with my low impedance/inefficient (Drop Ether CX) or high impedance (Seenheiser HD-650). There was thundering amount of power with ample headroom -- something I don't get with Topping DX3 Pro. This shows that the headphone amplifier is always more important than the DAC.
Conclusions
There marriage here is comprised of a very good DAC with a superb headphone amplifier. When measuring the former, of course we miss the mark of state-of-the-art performance. The amplifier though is king. No doubt about it. As is the nice and unique packaging. Subjectively it is all you want in a desktop product to drive headphones. Yes, deep inside you will know that you could have had a better DAC if you used such externally.
I am going put the JDS Labs Element II on my recommended list.
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As always, questions, comments, corrections, etc. are welcome.
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