JBL Studio 530 JBL Sub 550p Sub-Woofer Crossover Setting

[Qminati]

Hello,

I am looking for a little advice on where I should set my sub woofer crossover for optimal use with my JBL 530's. I am new to this. Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Equipment:
Mains: JBL 530 (Frequency response: 45Hz – 40kHz (–6dB)
Sub: JBL SUB 550p 500W (Frequency Response 27Hz-150Hz)
Integrated Amp: Rotel RX-1050 (100 watts per channel into 8Ω)
DAC: Shciit Modi 3
Source: Mac Mini running Audirvanna

 

[Jmudrick]

Hello,

I am looking for a little advice on where I should set my sub woofer crossover for optimal use with my JBL 530's. I am new to this. Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Equipment:
Mains: JBL 530 (Frequency response: 45Hz – 40kHz (–6dB)
Sub: JBL SUB 550p 500W (Frequency Response 27Hz-150Hz)
Integrated Amp: Rotel RX-1050 (100 watts per channel into 8Ω)
DAC: Shciit Modi 3
Source: Mac Mini running Audirvanna

Harman uses 80hz for its standard crossover, you could start there, works fine for my 530s

 

[witwald]

As far as I can tell, your system has no provision for high-pass filtering the signal going to the JBL 530 loudspeakers. This makes it very difficult to produce an acceptable blending of the subwoofer's output with that of the JBL 530 loudspeakers. As a starting point, you could try setting the subwoofer crossover frequency to 50 Hz, which is the minimum possible, as this will cause the subwoofer to only provide low-frequency output below the natural cut-off frequency of your JBL 530 loudspeakers (based on their specification of –6 dB at 45 Hz). Then adjust the subwoofer output level to suit your preference. Note that it will be worth trying a 180 degree phase shift of the subwoofer signal. One setting will produce more bass than the other, and that's probably the one you should go with when the subwoofer's crossover is set to 50 Hz. Hope this helps.

 

[Jmudrick]

As far as I can tell, your system has no provision for high-pass filtering the signal going to the JBL 530 loudspeakers. This makes it very difficult to produce an acceptable blending of the subwoofer's output with that of the JBL 530 loudspeakers. As a starting point, you could try setting the subwoofer crossover frequency to 50 Hz, which is the minimum possible, as this will cause the subwoofer to only provide low-frequency output below the natural cut-off frequency of your JBL 530 loudspeakers (based on their specification of –6 dB at 45 Hz). Then adjust the subwoofer output level to suit your preference. Note that it will be worth trying a 180 degree phase shift of the subwoofer signal. One setting will produce more bass than the other, and that's probably the one you should go with when the subwoofer's crossover is set to 50 Hz. Hope this helps.

Yes looks like you're right about the 550P which doesn't have a high pass filter unlike the 310s I use with the 530.

 

[witwald]

Here is a simulation of the summed response of the JBL 530 loudspeakers and the JBL 550P subwoofer. I've assumed that the subwoofer is connected with positive polarity. Further assumptions are that the JBL 530 has a 4th-order maximally-flat Butterworth low-frequency response, which is –3 dB at 51 Hz (–6 dB at 45 Hz). The subwoofer low-pass filter is a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley topology, set to –6 dB at 50 Hz. The low-frequency response shape of the subwoofer is modelled as a 3rd-order high-pass Butterworth filter (which assumes that the sealed enclosure has a 1st-order high-pass filter to reduce infrasonic low-frequency inputs). As you can see, the summed response is reasonably flat (better than I expected).

 

[NepinMn]

I found this thread at the right time.

Just ordered a pair of Studio 530s with a pair of 550p subs plus the center channel.

@witwald, Would the 50hz xo point still what I should do for two subs as well?

 

[witwald]

@NepinMn I expect that the 50Hz crossover point should work fine for two 550p subwoofers. Are you using an AV receiver with bass management? Or an integrated amplifier without bass management?

 

[NepinMn]

@NepinMn I expect that the 50Hz crossover point should work fine for two 550p subwoofers. Are you using an AV receiver with bass management? Or an integrated amplifier without bass management?

Thank you @witwald . I'm using a 5.1 AV receiver. Yamaha RX-V479.

I'll start out with 50hz as the xo point.

I also ended up ordering the Studio 580 speakers. Now I'm wondering if the 580 should be my fronts or if the 530/550 combo should be the fronts. If I do 580 as fronts, I'm thinking I'll try two sub placement options - 1. Side by side fronts. 2. One on front corner and one on rear opposite corner.

 

[witwald]

It's worth noting that the above simulations are for the Studio 530 speakers being operated full range. That's why the low crossover frequency is needed on the subwoofer, as it has to try and blend with the natural response of the main speakers. As you have the RX-V479, you can use its bass management to add some high-pass filtering to your main speakers, and by so doing allowing the subwoofer to take up more of the work in the low-frequency end of the spectrum.

The bass management on the RX-V479 has crossover frequency settings that include 40Hz, 60Hz, and 80Hz (as well as some higher ones). The 80Hz setting is likely to work reasonably well. You will probably need to use the YPAO feature on your receiver for best results.

As you have ordered the Studio 580 speakers, when they arrive I'd suggest that you use them as your front speakers. They have a frequency response rated at: 40Hz – 40kHz (–6dB). As they have quite a bit more bass extension than the Studio 530, I think that they will need to use the RX-V479's bass management for best results when blending with the subwoofers. Without appropriate high-pass filtering applied to the Studio 580, there would be too much overlap with the subwoofer, resulting in poor overall integration. The Studio 580 speakers are also listed as being 2dB more sensitive, so using them as the fronts makes even more sense.

 

[NepinMn]

@witwald, thank you so much for your suggestions. My 580s haven't arrived yet, but I've received the 530s and the 550p subs.

I noticed that I've lost some sensitivity compared to my prior speakers which were rated at 92dbs. These are 88. To me, it just means that I have to run the volume a bit high. I like these speakers very much.

I placed the speakers on either side of the TV on top of the subs. After playing with the toe in, I have it directly pointing to the primary listening position.

YPAO was a fail. It starts the signal sweep, but after doing the sweep of the subs (it has one sub out but I using a splitter) and the left speakers, it gives me an E8 error. Even after a factory reset. The same error happened.

I'm set up to run REW but not sure how to go about measuring using this amp and rew. If I can get the signal out to one speaker at a time, I could generate PEQs and try to apply them. This receiver is limited in how many PEQs it allows.

This is going to be a fun project.

 

[witwald]

@NepinMn It does sound like this could be a long-term project. Sometimes it seems that it can be difficult to get the subwoofers identified properly by the system. Having the speakers on top of the subwoofers seems like a reasonable idea, and it means that any differential time delays due to geometric offsets between the subwoofer and its complementary bass driver in the main speakers will be minimised. Hence the filtering should work better to the theoretical ideal, with each Speaker+Subwoofer combination having the same local boundary reinforcement, so they should tend to work as a single sound source.

The E8 error is interesting, and maybe the YPAO microphone isn't working properly for some reason. A call to your audio dealer or Yamaha support might be warranted in this instance. According to the owner's manual:

E-8:No Signal
– CAUSE: The YPAO microphone cannot detect test tones.
– REMEDY: Connect the YPAO microphone to the YPAO MIC jack firmly and retry YPAO. If this error occurs repeatedly, contact the nearest authorized Yamaha dealer or service center.

The Studio 530s have a stated sensitivity (2.83V/1m) of a lowish 86dB, coupled with a 6-ohm nominal impedance. They will draw a bit of power from the amplifier to get to typical listening levels. as you noted, they are much less sensitive than your previous speakers (92dB). In comparison, the Studio 580s have a sensitivity (2.83V/1m) of 90dB, which is a big increase over the 530s, with the same nominal 6-ohm impedance.

You mentioned that the RX-V479 has a limited number of PEQs that it allows. Do you know how many and what centre frequencies they use? The Owner's manual is very clear on this, and I guess one needs to see the setup screen to know the full details.

 

[IIIRIC]

I set the low pass to 80Hz on my subwoofer crossover, and the high pass to 90Hz on my power amplifier (ports unplugged). I may tweak it later but I like how it sounds for now.

 

[cochlea]

I set the low pass to 80Hz on my subwoofer crossover, and the high pass to 90Hz on my power amplifier (ports unplugged). I may tweak it later but I like how it sounds for now.

Doesn’t that leave a gap? Or did you mean the opposite?

 

[IIIRIC]

Doesn’t that leave a gap? Or did you mean the opposite?

That is how I had it set. I haven't yet been able to figure out the type of crossover order that my subwoofer has but I can tell that is has a very gradual slope; I get a lot of high-bass coming from the woofer even though the crossover is set low. I have since changed my speaker wires to the top post which makes them brighter (in a pleasing way), and I have adjusted the high-pass filter on my power amplifier to 69Hz. I didn't notice any frequency gap before, however I did eventually notice that some of the nice high-bass stereo-width was diminished, especially in electronic music. My target was to find a good balance between openness and fullness, while also minimizing phase issues with the bass frequencies.

 

[witwald]

Doesn’t that leave a gap?

The presence or not of a "gap" will depend on a number of parameters. These include things such as the filter topologies of the high-pass and low-pass sections (and whether they are complementary or not), the slopes of the high-pass and low-pass sections and the relative phase of the filtered woofer and filtered subwoofer outputs.

 

[77bstein]

Respectfully I think you are really complicating everything. First you get 530s, then subs because you need more base, then you get the 580s. For me the kiss principle works best. If you want more base , send back the subs and the 580s. And just get two 590s you should have plenty of base then and would be good blend with the rotel. Subwhoofers are great for home theater but for me can be boomy. If you want great two channel sound (for the money) , I think 590s and your amp is good. From there instead of getting two subs, just forget the 590s and go with the next bigger Jbl speaker(JBL 4367, JBL l100 ect). This way you getting the benefits of JBL designed speaker with proper crossovers
and if you have preout on rotel get a bigger power amp if you need more power.
Just my humble opinion.

 

[witwald]

The upgrade path to achieving high-fidelity sound reproduction in the home is sometimes convoluted, but the aim is high.

Simplicity may be a barrier to high-fidelity sound reproduction. The JBL Studio 590 loudspeakers have a rated frequency response of 35Hz – 40kHz (-6dB). Their -6dB point corresponds to the speaker being -3dB at 40Hz for a B4 vented-box alignment. That's not even enough to reproduce the lowest note on a bass guitar (41.20Hz), let alone a 5-string bass guitar (30.87Hz), and the lowest note on a piano (27.50Hz), with anywhere close to 100% fidelity as far as reproduction level goes.

Although the JBL Studio 590 loudspeakers do have considerable bass extension for a relatively compact enclosure size with their sensitivity, they are far from being able to reproduce a lot of low-frequency energy that some music, and many movies, will require on a regular basis.

Although the JBL 4367 may seem an attractive proposition, with regards to bass response it is only a little better: frequency response 30 Hz – 40 kHz (-6dB). Its design ethos is leaning more towards producing higher SPLs, rather than significantly more bass extension, notwithstanding its 15-inch woofer. As far as bass response goes, all other things being equal, the JBL L100 Classic, with a frequency response of 40Hz – 40kHz (-6dB) is the poorest performer of the bunch with regard to bass extension, even with its 12-inch woofer.

So, all in all, a subwoofer with a -3dB point of 20 Hz is still something that will provide better fidelity sound reproduction than simpler systems without a subwoofer. Of course, the tradeoffs between low-frequency extension and maximum output level need to be considered for the intended use case.

 

[77bstein]

The upgrade path to achieving high-fidelity sound reproduction in the home is sometimes convoluted, but the aim is high.

Simplicity may be a barrier to high-fidelity sound reproduction. The JBL Studio 590 loudspeakers have a rated frequency response of 35Hz – 40kHz (-6dB). Their -6dB point corresponds to the speaker being -3dB at 40Hz for a B4 vented-box alignment. That's not even enough to reproduce the lowest note on a bass guitar (41.20Hz), let alone a 5-string bass guitar (30.87Hz), and the lowest note on a piano (27.50Hz), with anywhere close to 100% fidelity as far as reproduction level goes.

Although the JBL Studio 590 loudspeakers do have considerable bass extension for a relatively compact enclosure size with their sensitivity, they are far from being able to reproduce a lot of low-frequency energy that some music, and many movies, will require on a regular basis.

Although the JBL 4367 may seem an attractive proposition, with regards to bass response it is only a little better: frequency response 30 Hz – 40 kHz (-6dB). Its design ethos is leaning more towards producing higher SPLs, rather than significantly more bass extension, notwithstanding its 15-inch woofer. As far as bass response goes, all other things being equal, the JBL L100 Classic, with a frequency response of 40Hz – 40kHz (-6dB) is the poorest performer of the bunch with regard to bass extension, even with its 12-inch woofer.

So, all in all, a subwoofer with a -3dB point of 20 Hz is still something that will provide better fidelity sound reproduction than simpler systems without a subwoofer. Of course, the tradeoffs between low-frequency extension and maximum output level need to be considered for the intended use case.

You made some good points, but still he will have issues with the cross ovet. I have yet to hear a sub that sounds seamlessly connected with the front speakers, always soynds like an add on. For me I prefer full range speakers. I do not understand why someone does not just design a crossover that sends bass to guitar to bass amplifier like live music and the mids and highs to amplified mid speaker and tweeter speaker.