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JBL Stage 125C Review (Center Speaker)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 104 58.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 65 36.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 10 5.6%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    179

voodooless

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I have this speakers from Magnat, THX Cinema ceries, they say they are optimised with klippel for horizontal and vertical disspertion. Interesting to see some real measurments but I think you dont have them in US. Probably some Arendals will show if there is really a design flow in MTM horizontal placement.
I wouldn't count on it:
Magnat-Cinema-Ultra-LCR-100-THX-Frequenzgang-1024x507.png

At 15 deg vertical there is already a droop ap at just below 2 kHz. Funny stuff happens below that as well. They should have done 30 and 60 deg, but probably then they'd have to explain some things... Obviously, the small tweeter makes it so that the effect can be pushed down a bit, but it's still quite noticeable.
 

Gorgonzola

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Clearly the popular MTM-on-its-side design is ineffective -- this is physics as pointed out. Low profile would seem to be the main driver of its popularity (other than marketing).

Quite few years ago I built a DIY center channel. That had tweeter and single mid-woofer side by side. It's never been measure for dispersion so I can't say whether it works better than MTM but it's certainly no worse.

Likely coaxial is the best solution or full-range driver is the best solution. Perhaps the likes of the Seas MR18REX/XF.

gi.mpl
 

respice finem

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Ok, a center speaker, for 120 $ new. About what one can expect for the price...
 

Dogen

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So is there *any* horizontal center channel design that works properly? The whole idea seems flawed, but many people need something in that form factor.
 

617

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@amirm I think it would be interesting to measure the Revel C205:
Revel_Black_C205_1605_FRONT.jpg

Notice the vertical waveguide orientation. If revel can't make it work with this waveguide I think we can definitively say that this format is 100% useless.
 

Steve Dallas

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I'll be dropping off a Revel Concerta2 C25 center channel later this week when I pick up my GoldenEar BRX, Hegel H95, and JBL 125C that Amir measured recently. Maybe it will measure better ;)

Awesome. I use that speaker with my F206s. I have no complaints with it, but our media room is small, and the listening distance from the center is only ~7'. That somewhat limits the angle of the off-axis seats, and they are probably within the +/- 10 degree window of the speaker, or close enough anyway.

I wish I had room to fit an M105 there, but at 14" tall, it is twice as tall as the space I have.
 
Last edited:

Ken1951

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signature-c3.jpg

This is what I use, it's certainly not a current model, but I've been very satisfied with its performance. Size = 9.5"x26.5"x13" and weight = 45 lbs. The horizontal dispersion seems good as my wife sits to the side and even with her hearing issues ( since remedied with excellent aids) it has worked well. But its price was well above the tested. It replaced a Focal Chorus which was in the MTM configuration. That speaker was not adequate for our great room as its horizontal dispersion was seriously lacking. It now resides in our MBR and works well there.
 

buzwork

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@amirm I think it would be interesting to measure the Revel C205:
Revel_Black_C205_1605_FRONT.jpg

Notice the vertical waveguide orientation. If revel can't make it work with this waveguide I think we can definitively say that this format is 100% useless.
He's measured the big brother in the Performa3 line, the C208:

 

dfuller

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So is there *any* horizontal center channel design that works properly? The whole idea seems flawed, but many people need something in that form factor.
Yes, 3 way designs with a reasonably low crossover between the woofers and mid, and the mid and tweeter either vertically aligned or coaxial.

See: Amir's review of the Infinity RC263. More expensive without a doubt, but a far better performing speaker.
 

temps

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I wonder how the Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL-C performs. It's a bizarre 3 way, electrostat, AMT tweeter, and this interesting woofer arrangement.... woofers crossed at 600hz to the electrostat panel, that's crossed at 3400hz to the tweeter.

I have the C2 MTM. Absolutely can't stand it and wonder all the time if I should spend the extra money to get one of these.
electromotion-esl-c-5a54e9d875a3c.png
 

SwampYankee

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This is exactly why one is generally better off buying one front speaker and use it as a center rather then buying the "center speaker" from the brand. Obviously that would require using a sound transparent screen with the speaker behind it. With a TV it's often better to drop the center speaker, use broadband constant directivity speakers and just treat the early specular energy since the fronts are often close to side walls.
I agree that is better for many situations, but it depends on your room configuration and seating positions. We have seating spread over ~135 degree arc from the TV and all seating is within 3 to 4 meters of the screen. A "phantom" center won't work here. All of the dialog sounds like its coming from the nearest front channel. A cheap used KEF coax center works surprisingly well. Unless you build a dedicated home theater or have tolerance and space for large/tall speakers below or behind your screen, its a matter of picking your poison.
 

michaelahess

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Can something as simple as a three way crossover fix this? Use the woofers as half per each half of expected woofer freq response? Output would of course drop, but it would avoid the cancellation right?
 

beaRA

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Yes, 3 way designs with a reasonably low crossover between the woofers and mid, and the mid and tweeter either vertically aligned or coaxial.

See: Amir's review of the Infinity RC263. More expensive without a doubt, but a far better performing speaker.
Exactly. Why does this question come up in every 2-way MTM center review? Physics dictates that these horizontal dispersion results are inevitable and not due to a poor MTM implementation. It's a strange logical leap to proclaim that no horizontal center can be designed with good horizontal dispersion.
 

617

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Exactly. Why does this question come up in every 2-way MTM center review? Physics dictates that these horizontal dispersion results are inevitable and not due to a poor MTM implementation. It's a strange logical leap to proclaim that no horizontal center can be designed with good horizontal dispersion.

Even in a 3 way design, performance is somewhat compromised. Inevitably what happens is that the midrange driver needs to cross over a bit lower than you might want, and since the mid is below a tweeter in a short cabinet, it isn't a large unit. When you only have a 3" mid and need to cross it at 200hz, things get tricky. You can make it work, though.
 

temps

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I agree that is better for many situations, but it depends on your room configuration and seating positions. We have seating spread over ~135 degree arc from the TV and all seating is within 3 to 4 meters of the screen. A "phantom" center won't work here. All of the dialog sounds like its coming from the nearest front channel. A cheap used KEF coax center works surprisingly well. Unless you build a dedicated home theater or have tolerance and space for large/tall speakers below or behind your screen, its a matter of picking your poison.

would there be an ideal spacing for using a pair of LSXs as a center channel? or is a single speaker always going to be better?
 

MZKM

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From Spinorama data that is out there, if the tweeter is in a large waveguide (like the the Revel C25 & C205), then the MTM 2-way configuration is not terrible; though I have not seen the horizontal plots for these speakers, so they may still be poor and their stellar vertical off-axis plots may be making the Spinoramas look better than they should.

Here is the Spin for the C25:
Spin%2B-%2BRevel%2BConcerta2%2BC25.png
 

beagleman

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Wow, some of you guys act like this is a deal breaker.

I have used Centers of various configurations, and it simply is NOT nearly as noticeable or as bad as the measurements make it look.

Before this forum started measuring center speakers, where were all the complaints about EVERY center speaker sounding horrible off axis??

I get the feeling some are just jumping on the bashing bandwagon.
 

MZKM

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Before this forum started measuring center speakers, where were all the complaints about EVERY center speaker sounding horrible off axis??
How many of us do not sit in the sweet-spot?

I don't (I sit ~60% off-axis), and while it may be placebo, I think dialog clarity/intelligibility went up when I switched out my 2-way center for my current 3-way. However. very true that it was not leaps and bounds better, at least to my ears.

But I still generally don't heavily recommend getting the matching 2-way center if your left/right main speakers are competent (and well placed) and you only care about the center seat.
 
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