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JBL SA600 Vintage Amplifier Review

AndreaT

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Hi,

Aren’t you just a little curious how it sounds?
I am, and would jump at the chance to listen to it.

My Fisher integrated tube amp from 1964 was the last model they made before they went all solid state. It really performs quite well for what it is, and will even drive my large floor standers to a room filling volume.

Having a working piece of early solid state history has an undeniable cool factor, even if it doesn’t perform like today’s integrated amps. Of course this is in my opinion :cool:
Hi, I do have an old PAS 3x and ST-35 by Dynaco, rejuvenated my new boards, caps, rectifier…yet, they do not remotely compare to Okto Stereo DAC8 and class D by Hypex…so, the old stuff is now on static display…I appreciate how Dynaco introduced me to better listening when young (better than a 1960’s Garrard console) and how it inspired me to incremental improvements for the past 50 years…improvements I do still enjoy…thanks also to Amir superb work and teachings…
 

diaolodoro

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I love that good vintage hifi always used really beautiful machined solid aluminium huge knobs and tactile switches.
At least amplifiers like the JBL SA750 or some Yamahas and Marantz still keep the vintage look and feed alive.
I wasn't even alive when most of those vintage amplifiers were made, so I'm tempted to buy something retro looking just to be able to experience that. I wanna flip a tactile metal switch to power on an amplifier, not a crappy i/o plastic one. Honestly it's so hard to find quality knobs these days.
 

YSC

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I kind of “understand to hide the cables underneath so it don’t need to bend a lot when out near a wall or inside a bookshelf.

But hey, everytime I need to plug and unplug something need to flip this heavy beast over? Pardon me for that..
 
D

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Hi, I do have an old PAS 3x and ST-35 by Dynaco, rejuvenated my new boards, caps, rectifier…yet, they do not remotely compare to Okto Stereo DAC8 and class D by Hypex…so, the old stuff is now on static display…I appreciate how Dynaco introduced me to better listening when young (better than a 1960’s Garrard console) and how it inspired me to incremental improvements for the past 50 years…improvements I do still enjoy…thanks also to Amir superb work and teachings…
Pics or it never happened! Just kidding, I think it looks and sounds wonderful.
 

kopczas

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keep things as close to original as possible instead of doing a restoration-modification like transforming a vintage car with a Tesla powertrain.
The power supply new electrolytic capacitors throughout with, in the main supply, the original 4500Uf 40v replaced with low ESR 10k 63v. The diodes were also replaced with 5A ultrafast types. The secondary voltages of which there are three, also had the original 1000uf 6v replaced with 2200uf 25v and the diodes again replaced with 1A ultra fast types. The film caps were also replaced as were the dropping resistors.

The preamp board had all of the electrolytic caps replaced, with a combination of low impedance and audio types, including the Nichicon Muse UES BiPolar types, depending on function. Some of the values were increased where appropriate. The film caps were mostly replaced with polypropylene or polyester depending on function. A number of ceramic capacitors were also replaced, generally with WIMA polypropylene.
So, the costumer wanted as close as possible restoration, but got "diy audio type tuning". All after 2 years of work. Come on :D
 

diaolodoro

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Would it be really naughty to take one of these amplifiers, gut it, insert a newer amp board and wire up to the nice beefy controls, maybe add bluetooth + rasp pi etc. This one is somewhat aesthetically pleasing, but there are some very nice looking ones with great feeling knobs and switches, I don't know how many remain affordable though.
This is EXACTLY what I had in mind for a project. Buying a broken vintage amp with beautiful knobs and front plate (something from Kenwood or Pioneer probably) and using it as a DIY case for an All-in-One package with DAC, speaker, subwoofer and headphone amplifier, as well as internal power supplies, DSP module for my DIY sub and maybe a RPi4. The problem is when I'll finish this project, everything would be obsolete by then.
 

DSJR

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I've got to try to find it, but the UK equivalent would be the Quad 33/303 pairing from I think, 1967 until around 1980 and was technically re-reviewed not that long ago I seem to remember, in HiFi News - November 2011 and that year's 'yearbook.'

The 33 preamp 'suffers' today due to noise, high input sensitivity and max 1.4 - 1.5V output according to the specs off the top of my head, BUT - Dada Electronics in The Netherlands do a sympathetic update from power supply (increased from 12V to 16V) to cap changes and adjusting gain if necessary, thereby reducing noise. Thing is, the lf was rolled off a bit on the line inpits I believe and the phono stage (which needed this back then) rolled off below 35Hz. I was just thinking of all the small active speakers now which distort horribly below 80Hz or so and which may well benefit (our rooms here tend to be too small for subs)

The 303 gets similar treatment, keeping the novel power supply design (which other third party vendors change in ignorance for what I gather is an inferior design) but replacing tired caps and most importantly, tired presets with full instructions for re-setting up to original spec.

My late issue pair sound delightful in a soft-n-gentle kind of way (I use my digital source into the Tape Play socket with gain reduced which is a bit of a bodge but it works well enough) and the tale of Peter Walker listening to his prototypes for distortions rather than 'music' seems to hold out, the amps only really showing their now extreme age at the frequency extremes, although I don't listen as critically as some do.
 
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D

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Hi, I do have an old PAS 3x and ST-35 by Dynaco, rejuvenated my new boards, caps, rectifier…yet, they do not remotely compare to Okto Stereo DAC8 and class D by Hypex…so, the old stuff is now on static display…I appreciate how Dynaco introduced me to better listening when young (better than a 1960’s Garrard console) and how it inspired me to incremental improvements for the past 50 years…improvements I do still enjoy…thanks also to Amir superb work and teachings…
Pics or it never happened! Just kidding, I am sure it looks and sounds wonderful
 

GXAlan

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From the manual, it seems to invert one channel and sum with the other. Then you listen to see if you get anything but silence. At least this was my quick read of it.
This is good for setting channel balance. Can also use this to get the “best” point for the volume potentiometer where it’s the most balanced and then using a DAC’s volume control. There is a mono mode too. So you can throw mono mode switch and then test switch and then for the volume you are listening to, adjust the balance. They are really old potentiometers for volume so it is not perfect.

Wondering if that amplifier is used daily by the owner or if like a vintage car it is only taken out occasionally and driven a bit?

With vintage cars, it is also the case that many people find the renovation itself to be the most enjoyable part of the whole thing;) :)

Estate sale find. Spent more than $56, but under $1K. Heck, having the original manual (not a copy) was one of the most impressive things. It’s a bit of functional art. Can be used to prove it works but not really a daily driver. Was hoping it would beat some of today’s Arcam amplifiers based upon that article from the 1960’s. It didn’t.
In its day, it exceeded the measurement capabilities of the test gear.

The first option. I wanted to see how good or how bad something from this era performed.

My daily driver is a PM-11s2 which is the integrated amp version of

And I sent this in

And my home theater has these

What is not mentioned is how light weight and small the JBL amplifier is. You can carry it with one hand.


Thought older amps were known to be underrated o.o

Rated at 40w x2 into 8 ohm, 65w x 2 into 4 ohm with “prolonged operation at greater than 40W triggering the protection devices (I.e. fuse)

@amirm got 55 and 87 W (37.5% and 33% more than advertised) and his burst power was 100Wx2.

This was pre-FTC rules for power advertising so when Amir thought it didn’t meet spec, he actually was actually thinking it was 2X more powerful.
 

Milesian

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Full marks to Amir for the diplomacy of his conclusion. If the intent of the restoration was indeed to “have a rough estimate of how the very first solid state integrated amps from the 1960s likely performed.” it appears to have succeeded. But it seems a prolonged and likely expensive project
to find the performance is not that good, and perhaps not even worth the two years of research and effort. Each to his own taste though, and if the owner is happy then all is well.
 

Addicted to music

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Be interesting if the power supply was compared to restored with the original capacity electrolytic value caps and that normal standard power diodes are used. Using diodes that are fast has no benefits as it’s electrical characteristics are different and some exhibit extremely high reverse voltage vs temp and lower current rating, then you see typical restoration where they use a higher capacity caps especially some of the “audiophile grade” that has no figure or mention of ESR in its white paper, why?
Many thanks to the owner and Amir for giving us a look at vintage gear.
 

Spkrdctr

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I kind of “understand to hide the cables underneath so it don’t need to bend a lot when out near a wall or inside a bookshelf.

But hey, everytime I need to plug and unplug something need to flip this heavy beast over? Pardon me for that..
This was in the day when you DIDN'T plug and unplug stuff all the time. Not like today where everything is a plugfest. Being 65 yrs old, I like the simple set it up and forget it type of equipment. So, as any true Dinosaur, I have no DACs, no headphone amps and no various audio wires plugged into my computer. Time moves on and I'm a bit outdated! :)
 

Neddy

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the JBL SA600 vintage (1966) stereo amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member.
View attachment 227934

The classic look endures the test of time. It is more usable and stylish than many amps of today. Inputs though, are oddly placed underneath the unit:
View attachment 227935

Prices for these can go way up with one currently listed at US $5,600!

Here is the background from the owner:

"“This was an estate find that came with an original owner’s manual (not a photocopy!) that looked and sounded great albeit with a large channel imbalance. I reached out to Peter to do a “classic car” restoration in that I wanted to figure out how to keep this amp running another 60 years from now but to also keep things as close to original as possible instead of doing a restoration-modification like transforming a vintage car with a Tesla powertrain. I’d like to send it to Amir after restoration so we have an rough estimate of how the very first solid state integrated amps from the 1960s likely performed. This amp is interesting because JBL didn’t know how the amp performed because it was at the limit of the test equipment at the time before negative feedback was applied, so no one really knows how it performs once negative feedback was applied. I sent Peter a full set of new-old-stock JBL branded, Motorola manufactured transistors from a different estate sale from someone’s whose dad worked closely with Ed May. Per Peter, several of these transistors had already deteriorated on their own, but he was able to use a few of them in the restoration.”

Peter is humble, and I would add that he spent about a year researching the idea and reviewing the technical and original designer’s writings before actually embarking on the restoration. This is almost a 2 year project! Ironically with the goal of not making it “too good” that it would defeat the purpose of having a benchmark to compare against."

And notes from Peter from Quirkaudio:

"The SA 600 has four PCB.

The power supply new electrolytic capacitors throughout with, in the main supply, the original 4500Uf 40v replaced with low ESR 10k 63v. The diodes were also replaced with 5A ultrafast types. The secondary voltages of which there are three, also had the original 1000uf 6v replaced with 2200uf 25v and the diodes again replaced with 1A ultra fast types. The film caps were also replaced as were the dropping resistors.

The preamp board had all of the electrolytic caps replaced, with a combination of low impedance and audio types, including the Nichicon Muse UES BiPolar types, depending on function. Some of the values were increased where appropriate. The film caps were mostly replaced with polypropylene or polyester depending on function. A number of ceramic capacitors were also replaced, generally with WIMA polypropylene.

Each main amp channel has a single PCB. The input pair were replaced with low noise modern transistors, and all the electrolytics were also replaced, again with a combination of low ESR and audio types as applicable. The input filter cap was replaced with a polypropylene film type as were the ceramic caps. The power rail caps were increased in capacity slightly. The main output transistors were all replaced with modern OnSemi types as they all measured poorly. Some of the resistors on the main amp boards were also replaced, mainly to reduce noise at input and feedback."

Here are the distortion and power specs:
View attachment 227943

JBL SA600 Measurements
While there is a set of pre-outs, they seem to be just pass through so I measured the amp as a whole unit. Here is our dashboard:
View attachment 227936

Not a pretty picture although much of the fault falls on the shoulders of the power supply. The 120 Hz harmonic dominates SINAD at just 40 dB. If we replace that power supply with an ideal one, SINAD would be around 60 dB given the second harmonic at -65 dB.

As noted in the intro and in my measurements, channel balance is quite off although it depends partially on the volume control position. In the review image you can see where I had to set it for the measurements.

SNR suffers of course due to that power supply noise:
View attachment 227937

Then again at full power it is dominated by distortion which is close to what I guessed.

There is no tone defeat. With the controls not be precise at center position, response was quite variable:
View attachment 227938

The solid lines are the closest I could get to a flat response without too many trials. The peaking is above audible band fortunately. The low frequency cut off is not. The input is capacitor coupled so some of that roll off is due to that. Here is the effect of the loudness control:
View attachment 227940

Multitone shows the level of distortion we saw in the dashboard:
View attachment 227941

Crosstalk was quite poor:
View attachment 227942

Here is our power response:

View attachment 227945

View attachment 227946

Even allow for more distortion I could not reach the spec:
View attachment 227947

I then attempted to run my frequency vs power sweep but the amp shut down with the first test (20 kHz). The fuse blew and unfortunately I don't have a slo blow 2 amp one to put in there. I have one on order. Hopefully that is all it is and not a blown output stage. :(

Conclusions
1966 is a long, long time ago. We are talking early decade in life of transistor amplifiers. Was this a good attempt or not? Based on current measurements it is not but there is no way to know how it originally performed. Company specs are certainly a lot better than what I am seeing. Maybe the power supply can be further improved. Not sure.

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
Interesting review Amir!
I used my SA660 for nearly 10 years, and always liked the 'tube' sound. ;)
I was told mine had the last of the new output transistors available' replaced by JBL shortly before I bought it (2nd owner) in the early 90s.
I powered it up last year, and thought it sounded 'ok' but sure didn't trust it, either.
Still unsure as to whether to sell it or have it rebuilt, may contact this guy to see what he thought.
And many thanks to the owner for being curious enough to send it in!!
BTW, the user experience (aside from the 'under' connections') was excellent with this amp, I always loved using it!
Thanks again!
Mine:
IMG_20210108_084411668.png
 

fpitas

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Some internal pics and the amp schematic.
View attachment 227955

2907526-1835ba41-jbl-sa600-integrated-amplifier.jpg

attachment.php

1920853-b6b29cc3-jbl-sa600.jpg

962f401b4ddff7c1c3268c18b2fd4f89.jpg
Some history:

 

fpitas

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fpitas

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For those who note such things, Locanthi earned some fame for the triple-cascade fully complementary output stage. The power transistors back then were just terrible, so the 0.2% distortion he obtained wasn't that bad.
 

Angsty

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Kudos to Peter in working on this restoration. He has worked on three of my components and all came back sounding better than they did when they left, to my ear. Lots of room for subjective bias in that assessment , but working with Peter has been a pleasure.
 

Old Listener

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I bought an SA600 in the late 60s and used it for years. I never was conscious of high levels of noise and distortion from the amp. It did produce an attention-grabbing power-on thunk.

Unavailability of (exact) replacement parts was my reason for giving up on the amp. This test shows the result of such a rebuilt.
 

Doodski

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OMG!! Doodski, is the the worst amp topology that you've ever seen? The next to worst? Or the next next to worse?
I've seen worse with single rail quasi complimentary pair design. This JBL amp is pretty good for the era.
 
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