JBL M2s - Tweaks

[Introextro]

Hello,
Just bought a set of JBL M2s a week back, with the crown amps. While they sound truly amazing(!!) and have all the fundamentals I like (mid range crack, horn dynamics) I a finding the setup a little bright, and have to turn down the volume often. Especially true with bad recordings. I have cheap speaker cable, wondering if thats a place to start? I don't want to play with the digital crossovers yet, since I want to assume that they were setup to provide uncolored sound. Any thoughts on improvements? Add a subwoofer?

Thanks so much

 

[andreasmaaan]

Hello,
Just bought a set of JBL M2s a week back, with the crown amps. While they sound truly amazing(!!) and have all the fundamentals I like (mid range crack, horn dynamics) I a finding the setup a little bright, and have to turn down the volume often. Especially true with bad recordings. I have cheap speaker cable, wondering if thats a place to start? I don't want to play with the digital crossovers yet, since I want to assume that they were setup to provide uncolored sound. Any thoughts on improvements? Add a subwoofer?

Thanks so much

Speaker cables are highly unlikely to make any difference. I would start with taking measurements and then if necessary EQing the bass (up to 300 or 500Hz) if there are any anomalies there. Easier said than done, but not hard with a bit of patience and no doubt the advice of experienced people here.

Room treatment and the addition of subs would be the next steps if that first step doesn't satisfy you.

 

[Sal1950]

andreasmaaan

Hello,
Just bought a set of JBL M2s a week back, with the crown amps. While they sound truly amazing(!!) and have all the fundamentals I like (mid range crack, horn dynamics) I a finding the setup a little bright, and have to turn down the volume often. Especially true with bad recordings. I have cheap speaker cable, wondering if thats a place to start? I don't want to play with the digital crossovers yet, since I want to assume that they were setup to provide uncolored sound. Any thoughts on improvements? Add a subwoofer?

Thanks so much

Thats the problem with really accurate detailed speakers, they'll reveal every flaw in the source, sometimes mercilessly.
Absolutely nothing to be gained from wire, don't go down that road, there lies the madness.
If you don't want to start dialing them in with the crossovers, maybe think about some room treatment.
There's a number of folks here with M2's that might chime in.
Read @dallasjustice thread on his adventures.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...m2-audiolense-digital-crossovers-w-subs.2369/

Beat me to it andreasmaaan LOL

 

[RayDunzl]

I am finding the setup a little bright

That was my initial impression upon listening (for the first time and unknowingly) to a quality standalone DAC years ago.

It went away later, and hasn't returned.

 

[RayDunzl]

and have to turn down the volume often.

At what SPL are you listening?

 

[RayDunzl]

I have cheap speaker cable

What gauge and length?

 

[RayDunzl]

Any thoughts on improvements?

Are you sure you have the amps setup correctly?

 

[Introextro]

Thanks!. Well a mix of some random 14AWG Monster type cable. Was thinking about some anti cables, that are just a solid copper wire maybe 16AWG which is not too expensive ( in the $300 range), but maybe not. I listen to high volumes I'll measure the SPL and let you know. The amps seem to be setup correctly, they display M2 device and the woofer and tweeter are connected to channel 2 and channel 1 respectively. Maybe the Crown stuff is harsh to my ears? Dint get me wrong though, they sound amazing with good recordings and jazz but don't do such a good job with pop. Also the vocals could be a little heavier I think, but that may be the effect of the two 18inch subs that I had earlier .

 

[Introextro]

Thanks!. Well a mix of some random 14AWG Monster type cable. Was thinking about some anti cables, that are just a solid copper wire maybe 16AWG which is not too expensive ( in the $300 range), but maybe not. I listen to high volumes I'll measure the SPL and let you know. The amps seem to be setup correctly, they display M2 device and the woofer and tweeter are connected to channel 2 and channel 1 respectively. Maybe the Crown stuff is harsh to my ears? Dint get me wrong though, they sound amazing with good recordings and jazz but don't do such a good job with pop. Also the vocals could be a little heavier I think, but that may be the effect of the two 18inch subs that I had earlier .

Also, strangely turning down the gain in the amps from 0 to -10 seems to help? I am not sure though!

 

[fitero]

I can only offer my own experiences with my M2s.

I've used the 600WPC Crown amps with their built-in speaker tunings with the M2s. I've also paired the speakers with BSS Blu-50 and Blu-160 processors in conjunction with several amplifiers, ranging from 30WPC, EL34 tube amps, to 350WPC class AB amps. I've also connected several speaker wire sets from Audioquest and Analysis Plus, up to $15,000 per pair models.

To sum it up; I ended up with a SDEC-3500 (BSS BLU-160), class AB amplification and a mix of generic speaker cables. 12ga, stranded, Belden for the bass and 2ea, 16/4 (10AWG equivalent) generic installation wire for the tweeters. I can get most any cable and component at 75% discount, so price limitation was not an issue for me. e.g. the mix of wires that I use sound to my ears "approximately" the same as the expensive cables that I tried.

Sal1950 nailed it on the head. The speakers sound normal and harsh with most recordings. When you play a really excellent recording they really are "wow" speakers.

I did one thing that changed the tonality and smooths the treble favorably of the speakers. I used REW to analyze the acoustics of my room. I then applied that correction file to the Roon Convolver which I use most as a music source. My room has abundant first reflection point sound treatment.

In my case, lowering the gain of the BSS to -10 lowers the idle hiss to it's lowest point. There is more than enough gain left over for my 350WPC amps.

 

[RayDunzl]

I heard M2 at @dallasjustice in July of last year.

They are "room corrected". Uses Audiolense/Acourate for adjustments, has a pair of AHB2 for power.

I didn't note any harshness, although I may be deaf to the range that triggers your complaint.

His Frequency Response at the listening position, dated 2/17/2018, left and right, 1/6th octave smoothing:

 

[Introextro]

Thanks, going to try something soon!

 

[RayDunzl]

Any thoughts on improvements? Add a subwoofer?

$100 (or less) for a USB measurement mic with which to take readings in-room might make things easier for you over the next 10~20 years..

 

[Sal1950]

Well a mix of some random 14AWG Monster type cable. Was thinking about some anti cables, that are just a solid copper wire maybe 16AWG which is not too expensive ( in the $300 range), but maybe not.

$300 for a couple runs of copper wire? NAH
I was surprised your running such a lite gauge but you didn't mention the length?
BlueJeans Cable has some nice Belden 5000 series available. I'd grab the 10 gauge 5T00UP and have them custom terminate it with the connector type of your choice.
$1.31 a foot, un-terminated.
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm
Some good reading
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/when-12-gauge-wire-is-not-12-gauge.3/

 

[MZKM]

As Amir’s testing has shown, a lot of the advertised gauges are actually false, many 12awg are actually 14awg.

Do not get solid core cable, they have worse skin effect than stranded.
I would look for cables using wiring from Belden or Canare. Blue Jeans and Ghent Audio seem to be good. You do not need to spend more than say $100 for 10ft (I paid $30/pair for GearIT cables with a white braided jacket), unless you are swimming in money and just want super nice looking cables.

As for harshness, did you try playing with toe-in? If so, what about extreme toe-in, where they suggest crossing the speakers in front of you?

This may work as you are reducing the intensity of the nearest side wall reflections.

 

[Introextro]

Very interesting indeed. Definitely Blue Jeans and a little toe in tonight. You probably understand, but to explain the effect, take Katy Perry's Chained to the Rhythm (sorry!). Her voice actually seemed thicker in my QSC KW 15 speakers with the 18 inch dual subs ( yes I have experience with those too!). Although I kept them on the floor, so i was probably missing out on a lot of screaming. With the M2s, while her voice sounds more natural, there's a bit of piercing brightness or "shrillness" going on. But I'll work on your suggestions, thank you so much! How the sound has grown on me otherwise, amazing!

 

[andreasmaaan]

Very interesting indeed. Definitely Blue Jeans and a little toe in tonight. You probably understand, but to explain the effect, take Katy Perry's Chained to the Rhythm (sorry!). Her voice actually seemed thicker in my QSC KW 15 speakers with the 18 inch dual subs ( yes I have experience with those too!). Although I kept them on the floor, so i was probably missing out on a lot of screaming. With the M2s, while her voice sounds more natural, there's a bit of piercing brightness or "shrillness" going on. But I'll work on your suggestions, thank you so much! How the sound has grown on me otherwise, amazing!

Good you're starting to enjoy them more. Are you able to take acoustic measurements?

 

[Introextro]

Yes, I will get to that. Haven't bought any gear yet.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Yes, I will get to that. Haven't bought any gear yet.

The UMIK-1 is great. Very accurate, inexpensive and quite user friendly. I suspect once you've fixed up the bass in-room a bit that any reservations about the speakers will disappear.

 

[pos]

@Introextro, your QSC is a 60° nominal coverage speaker, whereas the M2 is a 110° design. That is a massive difference in direcitvity and the power response ought to be much higher in the upper range with the JBL. The clearer the room, the more this difference will be audible.
If this is not to your liking then you might want to deaden your room a bit in the upper range (fairly easy to do), or add a bit of EQ (gentle shelving filter up high). You might also simply try to get used to it