JBL M2 versus 4367 Shootout

[NorthSky]

It's in the nature of the human species to identify themselves with the products we manufacture.
If you have a ghetto blaster you are a punk, if you have an ultra hi-fi stereo system you are a sophisticated man.
Our human values are proportional to what we drive, the house we live in, the system we are listening to.

But @ the end there is only one true value(s) that truly counts:
MUSIC we are listening to, HAPPINESS in the home we live in, ADVENTURE in the places we travel to.

Michael's JBL 4367 speakers are scientifically built and measured, and the Music playing from them is the Music he is Happy to Adventure in.
Same for Bob (me, Canada), same for Amir (our founder, USA), same for Frank (Australia), same for Thomas (UK), same for everybody (World).

 

[dallasjustice]

The funny thing about audiophiles is that the speakers they buy and are reviewed by Stereophile are almost all the same. They are the same drivers built by the same companies stuffed into similar looking boxes. The handful of speaker manufacturers who do things differently have a long row to hoe in terms of audiophile press attention.

Everyone wants to own something special or unique. The only way to do that is to spend more money than most other folks are willing to spend.

What's interesting about JBL, is that they are designing speakers which ARE truly unique. The transducers are patented and totally designed in house. The waveguide math is patented and totally designed in house. And the final measurements are beyond reproach. It's funny that magazines like Stereophile will never review such a speaker since it isn't part of the current fashion. JBLs aren't expensive enough and therefore not special enough for audiophiles.

 

[RayDunzl]

It's funny that magazines like Stereophile will never review such a speaker since it isn't part of the current fashion. JBLs aren't expensive enough and therefore not special enough for audiophiles.

I wouldn's say that's entirely true.

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/jbl_synthesis_1400_array_bg_loudspeaker/

Price: $11,500/pair - 2010 review

"Because of these excellent qualities, the Synthesis 1400 Array BG deserves a top-rank recommendation in Stereophile's "Recommended Components." The JBL has the smooth frequency response, the bass extension, the wide soundstaging, and the unique ability to render voices that I've heard only from far more expensive loudspeakers. Even with a retail price of $11,500/pair, the 1400 Arrays' width of soundstage, wide dynamic range, and accuracy in reproducing realistic male voices—all as good as I've heard in my listening room from other more expensive floorstanders—makes them an audiophile bargain."

It was put in with the "Class-A restricted Low Frequency" recommendations for a while.

Has JBL offered them an M2 or 4367 for test? They don't go out and buy them.

 

[NorthSky]

What's interesting about JBL, is that they are designing speakers which ARE truly unique. The transducers are patented and totally designed in house. The waveguide math is patented and totally designed in house. And the final measurements are beyond reproach.
It's funny that magazines like Stereophile will never review such a speaker since it isn't part of the current fashion.
JBLs aren't expensive enough and therefore not special enough for audiophiles.

But Stereophile has reviewed many pair of speakers in the $199 to $499/pair range. I won't provide any links because there are simply too many.

 

[dallasjustice]

I started another thread on WBF about this topic. I surveyed all stereophile speaker reviews back five years. I think I found one horn and one one MBL. The rest were all direct radiators in a box. JA didn't seem interested in JBL and sort of ripped previous models. Maybe JA is right to do so. But the 4367 and M2 is a new school.

I wouldn's say that's entirely true.

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/jbl_synthesis_1400_array_bg_loudspeaker/

Price: $11,500/pair - 2010 review

"Because of these excellent qualities, the Synthesis 1400 Array BG deserves a top-rank recommendation in Stereophile's "Recommended Components." The JBL has the smooth frequency response, the bass extension, the wide soundstaging, and the unique ability to render voices that I've heard only from far more expensive loudspeakers. Even with a retail price of $11,500/pair, the 1400 Arrays' width of soundstage, wide dynamic range, and accuracy in reproducing realistic male voices—all as good as I've heard in my listening room from other more expensive floorstanders—makes them an audiophile bargain."

It was put in with the "Class-A restricted Low Frequency" recommendations for a while.

Has JBL offered them an M2 or 4367 for test? They don't go out and buy them.

 

[Sal1950]

I started another thread on WBF about this topic. I surveyed all stereophile speaker reviews back five years. I think I found one horn and one one MBL. The rest were all direct radiators in a box. JA didn't seem interested in JBL and sort of ripped previous models. Maybe JA is right to do so. But the 4367 and M2 is a new school.

They review those that advertise. With the subjective review "possibly" influenced by the advert dollars spent.

 

[Purité Audio]

JBL have been making two way , horns/reflex bass for the last what fifty years?
Keith

 

[RayDunzl]

JBL have been making two way , horns/reflex bass for the last what fifty years?

But the 4367 and M2 is a new school.

Evolution.

 

[RayDunzl]

They review those that advertise. With the subjective review "possibly" influenced by the advert dollars spent.

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/307awsi/index.html

 

[dallasjustice]

Footnote 2: Currently, around 47% of published reviews are of products from advertisers, 53% from nonadvertisers. As about 40% of all audio manufacturers currently advertise in or have advertised in Stereophile, a 47% figure does represents a slight bias in favor of advertisers. This is due, I conjecture, to the fact that manufacturers who meet our rule regarding the minimum number of dealers will be more likely to be successful enough to advertise in any publication, not just Stereophile.
Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/307awsi/index.html#YPZyKmf4KRrRlWBU.99

Harman is the largest audio manufacturer and has many dealers throughout the U.S. The above quote reflects Stereophile's assumption about why some manufacturers may not advertise with them. WRT Harman, that assumption is misplaced. I can't remember the last time I saw a Harman product advertisement in Stereophile. For whatever reason Harman chooses to not advertise in Stereophile. To JA's credit, he's positively reviewed the Salon 2 speakers so I don't think the lack of ad dollars adversely affected that particular review.

My criticism of Stereophile isn't that they are corrupted by ad dollars. My criticism is that they are stuck in a repetitive cycle of reviewing the same gear with the same uninspiring and boring music; like Groundhog Day.

 

[hvbias]

My criticism of Stereophile isn't that they are corrupted by ad dollars. My criticism is that they are stuck in a repetitive cycle of reviewing the same gear with the same uninspiring and boring music; like Groundhog Day.

I'd put in a life time subscription if they used this in a review, I can't help but turn it up whenever it comes on the radio

 

[dallasjustice]

If they did use more challenging and fun tunes like that one, you'd see a lot more educational style articles about subwoofer integration and DSP. I'd pull the trigger on a lifetime subscription if they reviewed a pair of speakers with some Skrillex!

I'd put in a life time subscription if they used this in a review, I can't help but turn it up whenever it comes on the radio

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

A few notes:

1. Michael has started some kind of movement with his purchase of 4367. Many people are trying to listen to them and/or been to his house and most impressed. Harman should hire him as their evangelist but can't afford his hourly rate.

2. You are so right with the reaction of Americans to the JBL line. Almost all of their "luxury" sales (Everest, etc.) are in Asia where they cherish the look and the sound of these products as they listen to classic American music.

3. The M2 was the first joint design between the luxury group and "Pro." Traditionally they were rivals and not wanting to adopt the other group's virtues. This is why I think the M2 has been such a success (in Pro world and some outside). With that success behind them, there should be more products of this kind.

4. JBL products sold through the Pro channel are sold at much lower margin than luxury speakers through high-end dealers. The Pro channel comes with no hand holding, often no demo products, etc. and the customer specs them rather than the dealer suggesting. They also run on high volume and hence can afford the low margins. What this means is that traditional high-end retailers won't touch them with a 10 foot pole. This is why it is so difficult to find a place to hear them.

Still waiting patiently for an active product between the LS3 series and the M2....

Tim

 

[RayDunzl]

I can't remember the last time I saw a Harman product advertisement in Stereophile.

Revel - Concerta II - June 2016 - full page

 

[NorthSky]

That's just the month before last. And this month (August) is still brand new.

 

[hvbias]

If they did use more challenging and fun tunes like that one, you'd see a lot more educational style articles about subwoofer integration and DSP. I'd pull the trigger on a lifetime subscription if they reviewed a pair of speakers with some Skrillex!

Haha there was a new Skrillex song in the Suicide Squad movie. I'm mostly a jazz and classical listener (despite what my avatar shows ) so I sort of get why Stereophile don't stray from it. Even within those genres they choose the most lack luster performances, except recorded exceptionally well.

This is the type of album I expect to show up in a 'phile review.

Recorded on all tube equipment, vintage microphones... the music? Oh some Mozart guy or another, but anyway back to the recording equipment...

I was looking into the M2/4367 and am now interested in both. The D2430k looks like a nice advance in engineering for compression drivers though it is a refinement of a previous patent (BMS?). Quite clever to have the advantages of a large format compression driver, but also having plenty of headroom so the high end can be EQ'd up.

Someone mapped out the crossover settings for the M2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/...Kk_Y/edit? 1 down vote accepted &rm=minimal

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Haha there was a new Skrillex song in the Suicide Squad movie. I'm mostly a jazz and classical listener (despite what my avatar shows ) so I sort of get why Stereophile don't stray from it. Even within those genres they choose the most lack luster performances, except recorded exceptionally well.

This is the type of album I expect to show up in a 'phile review.

Recorded on all tube equipment, vintage microphones... the music? Oh some Mozart guy or another, but anyway back to the recording equipment...

I was looking into the M2/4367 and am now interested in both. The D2430k looks like a nice advance in engineering for compression drivers though it is a refinement of a previous patent (BMS?). Quite clever to have the advantages of a large format compression driver, but also having plenty of headroom so the high end can be EQ'd up.

Someone mapped out the crossover settings for the M2: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bzJyui75ZG_-wjV95dqKSbFs1Xh87bk2qlc-qS7Kk_Y/edit? 1 down vote accepted &rm=minimal

Where tubes belong:

 

[NorthSky]

1859 Fender amp, just after they discovered America...the Frenchs.

 

[RayDunzl]

I was looking at some M2 stuff...

I noticed the woofer uses bare wire spring clips for its connection.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Ah...that's how they keep it down to just $20k.

Tim