OP
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Sure. I had to generate them. As a bonus, here they are for both horizontal and vertical slices (click for larger image):
Definitely not clean.
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JBL LSR305P MKii and Control 1 Pro Monitors Review
- Thread starter amirm
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Definitely not clean.
Cahudson42
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Wow! Really great start!
Personally, I have never been able to get my head around powered speakers. The hiss reinforcing that. But I like my electronics separate, too.
Does make me look different at horns. Wonder what the Klipsch R-15M looks like?
For a lark, the Dayton B652 AIR
Personally, I have never been able to get my head around powered speakers. The hiss reinforcing that. But I like my electronics separate, too.
Does make me look different at horns. Wonder what the Klipsch R-15M looks like?
For a lark, the Dayton B652 AIR
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OP
mmicko
Member
Thank you Amirm for first speakers review !
Do you think that would be possible open the JBL and perform standard power amp test (perhaps on speaker terminal)?
It would be interesting to compare the quality of amplifiers used inside budget active monitors.
Do you think that would be possible open the JBL and perform standard power amp test (perhaps on speaker terminal)?
It would be interesting to compare the quality of amplifiers used inside budget active monitors.
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A new standard in how to review speakers. One that exceeds all efforts I've seen prior to this.
Now can you do something maybe just this one time or maybe now and one other time?
Would be nice to measure the speaker in the same place using REW maybe do the points for the listening window. Since so many of us do measurement with REW it would give us an idea about how to make it more useful or perhaps ways or frequency regions in which it might be best ignored.
Now can you do something maybe just this one time or maybe now and one other time?
Would be nice to measure the speaker in the same place using REW maybe do the points for the listening window. Since so many of us do measurement with REW it would give us an idea about how to make it more useful or perhaps ways or frequency regions in which it might be best ignored.
Nice to see. It seems that the two speakers are opposite in how the voice register would sound like. I presume the Pro monitor sounds "polite" with the large upper midrange dip, while the 305 might sound a slight harsh on some female voices. A pity it appears to resonate in the cabinet audibly. Can it be estimated at what frequency the cabinet resonance occurred?
I would also like to give a shout-out to the matching 10" subwoofer that JBL sells, the 310S. $400 MSRP, $300 street. Two reasons why I point out this subwoofer in particular.
1. It has balanced inputs and outputs.
2. Unlike many subwoofers, the outputs are high-passed at 80hz. Takes some load off of the 305/306's woofer, lets it play a little louder and cleaner.
There are subs in that price range that offer more output, but (to be blunt) you don't need it with these speakers as they do not get super loud. The 305/306P get plenty loud in a small or medium room for 85dB listening with headroom for dynamic peaks, as that is more or less the design goal for a studio monitor in this class. The 310S matches that with no problem, because after all it was designed to pair with the 3-Series monitors. So no need to go bigger unless 27hz isn't quite enough extension for you.
This means that for a total of $700 MSRP, or a combined street price of $500 if one waits for sales, one can have an extremely capable system. Interference-proof thanks to the balanced cables, excellent frequency response and dispersion characteristics, and output down to 27hz or so at reference volumes. It is sort of like the JDS Atom or DX3 Pro of speaker systems:there are more expensive competitors that are better in every way, but here is an affordable thing that really doesn't do anything wrong.
I think that is really cool and really significant. It also would have been science fiction not too long ago!
I have heard better systems. I have heard megabucks systems at audio shows and I have plenty of speakers in my house with better and/or more "relaxed" tweeters. But the 305/306P tweeters are not harsh and I actually find myself preferring their detailed sound much of the time.
1. It has balanced inputs and outputs.
2. Unlike many subwoofers, the outputs are high-passed at 80hz. Takes some load off of the 305/306's woofer, lets it play a little louder and cleaner.
There are subs in that price range that offer more output, but (to be blunt) you don't need it with these speakers as they do not get super loud. The 305/306P get plenty loud in a small or medium room for 85dB listening with headroom for dynamic peaks, as that is more or less the design goal for a studio monitor in this class. The 310S matches that with no problem, because after all it was designed to pair with the 3-Series monitors. So no need to go bigger unless 27hz isn't quite enough extension for you.
This means that for a total of $700 MSRP, or a combined street price of $500 if one waits for sales, one can have an extremely capable system. Interference-proof thanks to the balanced cables, excellent frequency response and dispersion characteristics, and output down to 27hz or so at reference volumes. It is sort of like the JDS Atom or DX3 Pro of speaker systems:there are more expensive competitors that are better in every way, but here is an affordable thing that really doesn't do anything wrong.
I think that is really cool and really significant. It also would have been science fiction not too long ago!
I have heard better systems. I have heard megabucks systems at audio shows and I have plenty of speakers in my house with better and/or more "relaxed" tweeters. But the 305/306P tweeters are not harsh and I actually find myself preferring their detailed sound much of the time.
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Impressive amount of data! Although not an easy task, the "simple" guy in me would like to see also some kind of "digestible score" for layman... (but maybe I belong to minority in this forum
Anyway, found a nice comparison of generations:
JBL LSR305 vs 305P MkII
Anyway, found a nice comparison of generations:
JBL LSR305 vs 305P MkII
I'd bet $10 the author of that article has never used either pair of speakers. It certainly reads like the author just compared the spec sheets.
But yeah, from everything I've read, there should be no functional difference between generations.
Thank you @amirm and congrats on your new exploration!
And thanks so much for the write-up. I have to say it will take me some time to digest. But spending the money, setting up the equipment, and writing up all these reviews and detailed explanations are no small efforts. Thank you very very much for that!!
And thanks so much for the write-up. I have to say it will take me some time to digest. But spending the money, setting up the equipment, and writing up all these reviews and detailed explanations are no small efforts. Thank you very very much for that!!
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Harman has an algorithm to predict which results will be preferred which has a very high correlation with results of listening panels. Amir mentioned he needed to inquire about that. Hopefully he will do that soon. I'm sure he has been plenty busy just getting to this point. It will be an area I'm fairly sure will be expanded as we go forward. In this case the 305 is clearly the better result, but in the future which is better will be less clear cut.Impressive amount of data! Although not an easy task, the "simple" guy in me would like to see also some kind of "digestible score" for layman... (but maybe I belong to minority in this forum
Anyway, found a nice comparison of generations:
JBL LSR305 vs 305P MkII
Thank you for this first review @amirm ! A new era begins. *Cue dramatic trailer music*
A great speaker mainly hindered by some hiss, it seems, but that shouldn't bother most people for regular listening
It's interesting the the 305P did a bit worse than in the spin Ive seen for its predecessor, the LSR305, elsewhere. From here I'd guess the 305P speaker would sound a tad bright on-axis, but I can be picky =] But that's what toe in and the HF shelf are for.
I also wondered about this. This dip occurs at right about 1.8kHz in an equilateral triangle setup, and a little bit higher as the angle gets smaller, such as in the typical isosceles arrangementof a living room setup.
For those who do not know, here is figure 7.2 from Dr Toole's book describing the effect of this dip, which is particularly dramatic(10dB!) in an anechoic chamber. It affects speech intelligibility and is a primary reason of why center speakers do dialogue better even for an ideally-seated listener than stereo speakers.
The third image in particular reflects audibility in a typical room, though this stereo dip is more audible in a nearfield setup with more direct sound.
It is my experience that pretty much every otherwise flattish stereo speaker sounds better with a bump in this region when seated in the prime listening position. Mind you, it only helps the sound in the central seating position and stands to color sound otherwise, but this is relevant to a typical mixing setup as the 305P is intended to be used. Given I'm one of those audiophiles who plants his butt at the exact center of his listening potion every time when listening"seriously", it matters to me too.
Anyway, can't wait to see all the measurements to come.
A great speaker mainly hindered by some hiss, it seems, but that shouldn't bother most people for regular listening
It's interesting the the 305P did a bit worse than in the spin Ive seen for its predecessor, the LSR305, elsewhere. From here I'd guess the 305P speaker would sound a tad bright on-axis, but I can be picky =] But that's what toe in and the HF shelf are for.
I also wondered about this. This dip occurs at right about 1.8kHz in an equilateral triangle setup, and a little bit higher as the angle gets smaller, such as in the typical isosceles arrangementof a living room setup.
For those who do not know, here is figure 7.2 from Dr Toole's book describing the effect of this dip, which is particularly dramatic(10dB!) in an anechoic chamber. It affects speech intelligibility and is a primary reason of why center speakers do dialogue better even for an ideally-seated listener than stereo speakers.
The third image in particular reflects audibility in a typical room, though this stereo dip is more audible in a nearfield setup with more direct sound.
It is my experience that pretty much every otherwise flattish stereo speaker sounds better with a bump in this region when seated in the prime listening position. Mind you, it only helps the sound in the central seating position and stands to color sound otherwise, but this is relevant to a typical mixing setup as the 305P is intended to be used. Given I'm one of those audiophiles who plants his butt at the exact center of his listening potion every time when listening"seriously", it matters to me too.
Anyway, can't wait to see all the measurements to come.
It’s amazing how much of a story these measurements tell you about a speaker!
My recommendation is to create a new post for every speaker. Keeps things simple.
My recommendation is to create a new post for every speaker. Keeps things simple.
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Thank you so much Amir for this great review!
It must have taken you a lot of time... I'm very impressed by the way you can sum up all that knowledge about loudspeakers in a single review post.
I'm all the more happy that I have a pair of 305p MKII, on which I was listening some piano sonatas by Scarlatti yesterday evening. Someone who was at my place once told me "oh, I thought it was a real piano, but it's just speakers!".
I can hear the hiss slightly from 2 meters away on piano, during the quiet parts. But it is no worse than the fridge making noise from the kitchen.
Can you hear the resonance you found out via the measurements? I would say it is not easy. Pianos themselves can have resonances, so it is hard to tell if they are in the recording or not.
It must have taken you a lot of time... I'm very impressed by the way you can sum up all that knowledge about loudspeakers in a single review post.
I'm all the more happy that I have a pair of 305p MKII, on which I was listening some piano sonatas by Scarlatti yesterday evening. Someone who was at my place once told me "oh, I thought it was a real piano, but it's just speakers!".
I can hear the hiss slightly from 2 meters away on piano, during the quiet parts. But it is no worse than the fridge making noise from the kitchen.
Can you hear the resonance you found out via the measurements? I would say it is not easy. Pianos themselves can have resonances, so it is hard to tell if they are in the recording or not.
I also wondered about this. This dip occurs at right about 1.8kHz in an equilateral triangle setup, and a little bit higher as the angle gets smaller, such as in the typical isosceles arrangementof a living room setup.
For those who do not know, here is figure 7.2 from Dr Toole's book describing the effect of this dip, which is particularly dramatic(10dB!) in an anechoic chamber. It affects speech intelligibility and is a primary reason of why center speakers do dialogue better even for an ideally-seated listener than stereo speakers.
View attachment 45256
The third image in particular reflects audibility in a typical room, though this stereo dip is more audible in a nearfield setup with more direct sound.
It is my experience that pretty much every otherwise flattish stereo speaker sounds better with a bump in this region when seated in the prime listening position. Mind you, it only helps the sound in the central seating position and stands to color sound otherwise, but this is relevant to a typical mixing setup as the 305P is intended to be used. Given I'm one of those audiophiles who plants his butt at the exact center of his listening potion every time when listening"seriously", it matters to me too.
Thanks for the info. This was one of my concerns about the Klippel measurement process - that as only one speaker is measured at an time, stereo effects in a real 2.0 set-up can't be fully judged.
Just a comment: the colour map that you have used (Jet) is not perceptually uniform, and I suggest that you use one that is if available
https://riptutorial.com/matplotlib/example/11647/perceptually-uniform-colormaps
https://riptutorial.com/matplotlib/example/11647/perceptually-uniform-colormaps
Cabinet resonances can be heard as distortion, but it is not always easy to find the conditions. Depends on the frequency when it is excited and the distribution of overtones. I have heard on other speakers when resonances occur in the 300-500 kHz range on tenor and female voices.
It only seems you asked ‘should we (I) be testing loudspeakers’, last week and now here we are, incredible Amir, really I never imagined when you (and Savage) started ASR it would become such a force .
You are single handedly reversing forty years of subjective tosh and restoring faith in sound engineering.
Keith
You are single handedly reversing forty years of subjective tosh and restoring faith in sound engineering.
Keith
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