JBL L82 Classic: Spinorama and Measurements

[napilopez]

Yes.

For the same money, you could get a Revel M106.

But I use subs and that changes things.

I don't really see how the M106 is much far ahead of the L82 in terms of measurements. Comparing Harman's own data for the two:

The L82 gets you significantly more bass, theoretically has more power handling, features a larger cabinet, has a genuinely useful treble attenuator, and imo looks better too, though that's very subjective.

Spinorama wise, the M106 has a slightly better listening window, the L82 has a slightly better PIR (imo, I believe above 10k can be largely ignored).

They're close enough that imo bass will be the biggest difference -- even if you're using subs the extra flexibility can help.

 

[watchnerd]

They're close enough that imo bass will be the biggest difference -- even if you're using subs the extra flexibility can help.

I'd rather have a good two-way with normal tweeter layout.

I don't like the idea of a that horizontal tweeter adding yet another variable to figure out.

Plus, smaller cabinet size, better resonance control. And easier to fit on normal speaker stands; the JS-120 stand is pretty rickety.

I'm also not a fan of L-pad circuits in passive speakers. If I'm going to EQ the tweeter, I'll do it via DSP.

Lastly, an 8" woofer running up to 1.7 khz is right at the edge of the beaming limit of 2105 Hz for an 8" driver. I haven't heard any 8" + 1" 2 way that driver-integrates as well as a 6-7" driver with a 1" tweeter.

 

[TimVG]

Lastly, an 8" woofer running up to 1.7 khz is right at the edge of the beaming limit of 2105 Hz for an 8" driver. I haven't heard any 8" + 1" 2 way that driver-integrates as well as a 6-7" driver with a 1" tweeter.

I'm just happening to be testing Genelec 1032As which feature a 10" midbass crossed to a 1" tweeter in a 6" waveguide at 1.8kHz. I'm not hearing or measuring any integration issues in the slightest. It surprised me myself. I bought these to fool around with since it seemed like a stretch in terms of performance - but I'm pleasantly surprised.

 

[thewas]

I'm just happening to be testing Genelec 1032As which feature a 10" midbass crossed to a 1" tweeter in a 6" waveguide at 1.8kHz. I'm not hearing or measuring any integration issues in the slightest. It surprised me myself. I bought these to fool around with since it seemed like a stretch in terms of performance - but I'm pleasantly surprised.

Would be interesting to also test their cheap "siblings", the 9" Behringer B2031A which measure quite well too http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-30-13717-630.html#31709

 

[o2so]

For what a subjective opinion distorted by confirmation bias (of which I am aware) is worth, I have received my L82 today, I am listening to them as we speak and I find them exquisite. Last week I had a pair of M106 sitting right where the L82 are now, which I also loved. The delta in terms of punch is immediately obvious, with the L82 providing a much more dynamic presentation. At medium to low volume, this is a significant advantage methinks while the kids are asleep. I was expecting the L82 bass to be overpowering in my small-ish room, but this is not the case. I went through all my test songs to check that the faintest details were all there, and they are. I havent had a chance to measure yet and run Dirac, but just like the M106, I find the L82 very room friendly. Not sure I will need much EQ at all. If anyone is interested I can post a REW measurement tomorrow.

 

[ElNino]

...while the kids are asleep.

I'm curious if your kids can hear the dome resonance at 15kHz? I could hear dome resonances at 18kHz into my mid-twenties.

 

[o2so]

I'm curious if your kids can hear the dome resonance at 15kHz? I could hear dome resonances at 18kHz into my mid-twenties.

I will try and ask politely but dont get your hopes too high, my son is 4 and my daughter is 1

 

[napilopez]

For what a subjective opinion distorted by confirmation bias (of which I am aware) is worth, I have received my L82 today, I am listening to them as we speak and I find them exquisite. Last week I had a pair of M106 sitting right where the L82 are now, which I also loved. The delta in terms of punch is immediately obvious, with the L82 providing a much more dynamic presentation. At medium to low volume, this is a significant advantage methinks while the kids are asleep. I was expecting the L82 bass to be overpowering in my small-ish room, but this is not the case. I went through all my test songs to check that the faintest details were all there, and they are. I havent had a chance to measure yet and run Dirac, but just like the M106, I find the L82 very room friendly. Not sure I will need much EQ at all. If anyone is interested I can post a REW measurement tomorrow.

Would love to see your REW measurements!

I'm curious if your kids can hear the dome resonance at 15kHz? I could hear dome resonances at 18kHz into my mid-twenties.

I'm in my late 20s and I can hear up 19kHz comfortably, 20kHz at a bit higher volume. I investigated this dome resonance a bit -- I could hear it if i stood about 30-45 degrees off axis, but not otherwise -- as predicted by the measurements. So maybe don't use these with zero toe-in if your setup is a perfect equilateral triangle, as that would be roughly 30 degrees off axis.

 

[napilopez]

By the way, the speaker's engineer confirmed what I ultimately believed to be the reference axis. It's just a tad little below what I measured for the spin: the intersection of the vertical centerline and the height of the two bottom screws of the waveguide:

Yes, I am very particular about positioning. This does mean that despite the speaker being a little taller than usual it should sound fine with most regular stands.

 

[Valentin R]

By the way, the speaker's engineer confirmed what I ultimately believed to be the reference axis. It's just a tad little below what I measured for the spin: the intersection of the vertical centerline and the height of the two bottom screws of the waveguide:

View attachment 79769

Yes, I am very particular about positioning. This does mean that despite the speaker being a little taller than usual it should sound fine with most regular stands.

Great input good you have contact with him

could you please ask Chris to verify if the 4349 studio monitor has a 1.5kHz xo point or is it lower
1050 kHz

 

[Valentin R]

For what a subjective opinion distorted by confirmation bias (of which I am aware) is worth, I have received my L82 today, I am listening to them as we speak and I find them exquisite. Last week I had a pair of M106 sitting right where the L82 are now, which I also loved. The delta in terms of punch is immediately obvious, with the L82 providing a much more dynamic presentation. At medium to low volume, this is a significant advantage methinks while the kids are asleep. I was expecting the L82 bass to be overpowering in my small-ish room, but this is not the case. I went through all my test songs to check that the faintest details were all there, and they are. I havent had a chance to measure yet and run Dirac, but just like the M106, I find the L82 very room friendly. Not sure I will need much EQ at all. If anyone is interested I can post a REW measurement tomorrow.

Please do post Dirac measurements

 

[o2so]

So.
First, consider I have no clue how to measure speakers. I just follow the instructions on the DIRAC manual.

Second, my room is shit. It is small (about 3.3 x 4.8 m with high ceiling at 3.3m), with masonry walls and my configuration is asymmetrical. Specifically the base configuration is with speakers along the LONG wall, and shifted to the left because I have doors to the right. So the left speaker is at about 1.2m from side wall.

I sit on a couch right against the back wall.

Speakers are about 2.3 m apart, 50cm from front wall, and 2.5m away from me. Toed in to basically point at my shoulders, but tilted up because they sit on the dedicated stands.

I challenge you to have a configuration worse than this. I also have a second configuration in which I move things around and put speakers along short wall, but I have not measured that one yet (it does measure much better).

So, a simple frequency response, uncorrected is below (U-mik at about 25cm from back wall):

The above is in stereo mode, with grilles OFF. As you can see the peak at 20k Hz is a tiny spec. The bump in the bass is accentuated by the back wall. If I simply lean forward, it is 50% less audible.

If you care about left and right speakers individually, here they are (left is green). Grilles are still OFF.

If you care about what difference it makes in my room with the grilles on, see below (black is with no grilles):

After a DIRAC filter plus some additional manual corrections (as Dirac is not perfect), I had a very decent result. The dip at 60 Hz and the one at 180Hz are still there, but that is physics isnt it).

FYI the measurements of the Revel M106 in the same exact position were not better than these in any way or measure. I can dig them out if there is interest.

 

[napilopez]

So.
First, consider I have no clue how to measure speakers. I just follow the instructions on the DIRAC manual.

Second, my room is shit. It is small (about 3.3 x 4.8 m with high ceiling at 3.3m), with masonry walls and my configuration is asymmetrical. Specifically the base configuration is with speakers along the LONG wall, and shifted to the left because I have doors to the right. So the left speaker is at about 1.2m from side wall.

I sit on a couch right against the back wall.

Speakers are about 2.3 m apart, 50cm from front wall, and 2.5m away from me. Toed in to basically point at my shoulders, but tilted up because they sit on the dedicated stands.

I challenge you to have a configuration worse than this. I also have a second configuration in which I move things around and put speakers along short wall, but I have not measured that one yet (it does measure much better).

So, a simple frequency response, uncorrected is below (U-mik at about 25cm from back wall):
View attachment 79797

The above is in stereo mode, with grilles OFF. As you can see the peak at 20k Hz is a tiny spec. The bump in the bass is accentuated by the back wall. If I simply lean forward, it is 50% less audible.

If you care about left and right speakers individually, here they are (left is green). Grilles are still OFF.

View attachment 79800

If you care about what difference it makes in my room with the grilles on, see below (black is with no grilles):
View attachment 79801

After a DIRAC filter plus some additional manual corrections (as Dirac is not perfect), I had a very decent result. The dip at 60 Hz and the one at 180Hz are still there, but that is physics isnt it).

FYI the measurements of the Revel M106 in the same exact position were not better than these in any way or measure. I can dig them out if there is interest.

Thank you! Looks about right. How far were the speakers? And would be happy to see the M106 measurements. Do you have a firm preference between the two?

 

[o2so]

Thank you! Looks about right. How far were the speakers? And would be happy to see the M106 measurements. Do you have a firm preference between the two?

Speakers are 2.5m away from me and the mic was where my head usually is. Is this what you were asking? These are measurements I did to create dirac and minidsp filters so they were taken where I usually sit.

I am sure I am now biased because these are my new toy but I prefer the JBL, both aesthetically and for sound presentation. The kick and the speed these have make some difference. And post-DIRAC, which I used to shave off a good part of that bass bump due to the proximity of my listening chair to the back wall, I am left with +3db of bass down to about 30 Hz. I am thinking of selling my sub..

 

[knownunknown]

Speakers are 2.5m away from me and the mic was where my head usually is. Is this what you were asking? These are measurements I did to create dirac and minidsp filters so they were taken where I usually sit.

I am sure I am now biased because these are my new toy but I prefer the JBL, both aesthetically and for sound presentation. The kick and the speed these have make some difference. And post-DIRAC, which I used to shave off a good part of that bass bump due to the proximity of my listening chair to the back wall, I am left with +3db of bass down to about 30 Hz. I am thinking of selling my sub..

can't decide if i like the stands, but the speakers sure look gorgeous. i guess my room and the positioning of the speakers would be similar to yours - do you feel like the speakers need a bit of space behind them or are they ok (not boomy) the way they are in the picture above? what amp are you using?

 

[o2so]

can't decide if i like the stands, but the speakers sure look gorgeous. i guess my room and the positioning of the speakers would be similar to yours - do you feel like the speakers need a bit of space behind them or are they ok (not boomy) the way they are in the picture above? what amp are you using?

Hi,
Bass response is very room dependent. In my set-up I don't find the limited distance to the front wall to cause any boominess at all. If anything, it is the distance of of me from the wall behind me which is too little. Those measurements were taken very close to the back wall (about 20cm) and because of this reason the bass is emphasised. But as soon as I lean forward, that is I sit on the couch without leaning back, the bass reduces significantly and the sound becomes nicely balanced. I have experienced this with all the speakers I have had in this room so it's not an issue of the Jbl. It's just physics.

 

[o2so]

Hi again,

for completeness, this is what I get in the much more ideal room setup when I place the L82 along the short wall of my small room, at a distance of about 140cm from the front wall, and the listening chair is about 2m away from back wall.

 

[napilopez]

Looks about right!

As usual, the PIR doesn't reflect the top octave or two much, the direct sound takes over.

I once again forgot to save my measurement at 2m, but here's what the L82 looks like ungated at 1m. This is in the measurement position far from any walls so there is little bass reinforcement and massive nulls. Minimal tilt because of this and the 1m distance, but you can again see the FR is quite linear.

 

[Hephaestus]

I did not, though now that I think about it, I don't think I ever asked


Thanks! I was particularly surprised by the top octave, which is rarely quite so matchy both on and off-axis. Perhaps CSL calibrates to the same standard as Harman.

Not much to it though - just pointing the microphone at the speaker and make sure there are minimal obstructions to cause reflections within the measurement gate -- easy enough to check in the impulse response (I do my measurements indoors). Hardest part is getting the bass summation right, which is still a work in progress. Luckily I can settle for 'close enough' on that given how much a room modifies bass anyway.

Could you ask JBL if they are willing to provide L100 Classic spins?

 

[ROOSKIE]

Anyone know where to get pair of the L82's for less than full price?
No local dealers have them now (Minneapolis) and usually I don't pay full retail for $2500 speakers.
1. I am not rich
2. Just used to negotiating when the profit margin is likely $1-1.5K & all I want to do is buy a pair with no effort beyond shipping on the part of the dealer.
Love to help a dealer make a sale if they can offer a deal. (no 10% off is not a great deal)