JBL L100 Reissue - $4000

[restorer-john]

From us owners of JBL Century L100s, we can talk relatively honestly.

My last pair were arguably the most perfect pair I'd ever seen, from a functional point of view. Sure, they needed a small amount of furniture polish and care, along with a pair of new foam tweeter "surrounds".

The terminals were also carefully replaced with 4mm binding posts (and I kept the old ones for the new owner for originality).

Sure, they punched an amazing mid-bass 1970s Fleetwood Mac, Steely Dan sound, but alongside my SS333-ESG Sonys and Yamaha NS 1000Ms they were embarrassed. So badly embarrassed in the mid and treble, they were disposed of within a week or two. No regrets.

 

[anmpr1]

...but alongside my SS333-ESG Sonys and Yamaha NS 1000Ms they were embarrassed. .

The NS was a much more expensive speaker than the L100, and seemed to have had limited distribution compared to JBL. In any case, by then, most high enders had abandoned JBL and other mainstream brands, but were looking at speakers such as the Saul Marantz-John Dahlquist Quad look alike. At least that's how I remember it. FWIW, I'd much prefer a Yamaha over the DQ-10, a speaker that never sounded 'right' to me. I remember auditioning the Dahlquist and Polk RTA-12 (using Analog Engineering Associates preamp and Dunlap Clarke amplifier--anyone remember them?) and deciding that the Polk was better. I packed up my L100s that day (but kept them stored for later use).

I never heard the Sony, so have nothing to say about it. Generally, Japanese speakers got a bad rap in the press, and were looked down upon by most audiophiles as having substandard sound. Pioneer came out with some JBL-like speakers using the HPM tweeter they devised, and before that some horn speakers that emulated the 'west coast' sound. Even got the Allman Brothers to pose in ads for them. Duane should have stuck with hi-fi, and not motorcycles. On the tweak end, a few 'high end' types sprang for the Stax electrostatic. But those had to be special orders--probably from one of the NYC 'salons' such as Lyric. Like the Sony, I never heard the Stax speaker. I think Harvey Rosenburg was making special order Futtermans to drive them, for a price, so you know how that goes.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The British version of the test results. FYI

https://www.hifinews.com/content/jbl-l100-classic-loudspeaker-lab-report

No axe to grind.

When I read the article I was impressed by the very low distortion compared to most speakers they have tested.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The NS was a much more expensive speaker than the L100, and seemed to have had limited distribution compared to JBL.

The opposite here in the UK, JBL have never had much interest in our market.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I find it somewhat amusing that the British / Aussie press seem to review more JBL products at this price point than the American high end press.

Me too since it has never been easy to buy any here. These reviews are relatively recent so maybe they have a new distributor who gives a damn.

 

[anmpr1]

The opposite here in the UK, JBL have never had much interest in our market.

In the US, at least in my area, Yamaha was considered more of an 'exclusive' Japanese brand than Pioneer, Kenwood (Trio), Sansui, the latter sold by mail order discounters. Our Yamaha dealer sold the electronics line, but I don't remember them ever pushing Yamaha speakers. Or even seeing the high end NS speakers, there. Curiously, from England they sold Gale speakers--an unusual box in what looked like chrome, or stainless. My impression, and again I could be wrong, is that the NS line was more pro-studio oriented.

 

[Frank Dernie]

In the US, at least in my area, Yamaha was considered more of an 'exclusive' Japanese brand than Pioneer, Kenwood (Trio), Sansui, the latter sold by mail order discounters. Our Yamaha dealer sold the electronics line, but I don't remember them ever pushing Yamaha speakers. Or even seeing the high end NS speakers, there. Curiously, from England they sold Gale speakers--an unusual box in what looked like chrome, or stainless. My impression, and again I could be wrong, is that the NS line was more pro-studio oriented.

My dealer had the NS1000M (and the Gales) I bought some and still have them, but little used except when I am ill, they are in my bedroom.
I don't recall ever seeing a proper JBL speaker for sale at a dealers.
We do get the little plastic computer speakers in supermarkets that sell that sort of thing.

 

[anmpr1]

My dealer had the NS1000M (and the Gales) I bought some and still have them, but little used except when I am ill, they are in my bedroom.
.

Some folks might say they listen to JBLs only when they want to be made ill. LOL. Hope you stay in good health.

 

[maty]

Once you find a speaker that has no flaws, let me know. Not being a crank. Just serious...

Price and boutique components aside, can you tell me the flaws of the DIY Plutone please? To listen to very good recordings.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Plutone.html

 

[SIY]

Price and boutique components aside, can you tell me the flaws of the DIY Plutone please? To listen to very good recordings.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Plutone.html

Many key measurements missing- like the bass. No vertical dispersion measurements, which is a major Achilles's Heel of crossovers like that. Distortion vs level. It might be good, maybe not, hard to tell amidst all the stupid blather about the brands of parts and stunningly unlikely claims ("With the inductors for example, even differences of 0,05mH could easily be heard ").

 

[Vintage57]

About the Yamaha Ns-1000M

Floyd Toole had this to say in his book “They exhibited the lowest non-linear distortion of any consumer loudspeaker I had tested up to that point”. Circa 1974.

 

[maty]

Many key measurements missing- like the bass. No vertical dispersion measurements, which is a major Achilles's Heel of crossovers like that. Distortion vs level. It might be good, maybe not, hard to tell amidst all the stupid blather about the brands of parts and stunningly unlikely claims ("With the inductors for example, even differences of 0,05mH could easily be heard ").

Those are missing measurements and not weaknesses/flaws.

Some time ago I decided that if I changed the big speakers, the new ones would be from KEF with the small 5.25" coaxial or the DIY Plutone.

 

[anmpr1]

...can you tell me the flaws of the DIY Plutone please? To listen to very good recordings.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Plutone.html

I don't know. Some people might say that a box speaker that is down 10dB at 40Hz is a flawed speaker. At least in the bass region. But if it is the best speaker in the world, then they would be wrong.

 

[SIY]

Those are missing measurements and not weaknesses/flaws.

That's the point. If the measurements are incomplete, one can't judge the flaws.

 

[maty]

I do not play electronic, hip-hop... Jazz and classical must be OK with Plutone and KEF Q550, KEF R3... R11 (all with 5.25" coaxial). And Plutone is 91 dB with minimum 7 Ohms.

For now, the new KEF R11 has very good measurements. But... € 4,999. And the KEF Q750 (but with 6.5" coaxial).

If we focus on the known measurements of Plutone I find nothing to object to, quite the contrary. The use of first-order filters is debatable but in the end the important thing is the result, like my loved Q100.

 

[anmpr1]

Before this gets out of hand, all I was trying to say was that any speaker represents certain design trade offs, and, as such, no speaker can be considered perfect. Or even close to perfect. I should probably not have used the word 'flawed', since it is possible to design a speaker within certain established parameters that meets those design criteria. However, I think most people would understand what I meant. If I said it wrong then 对不起, which also means 'sorry'.

As far as I know this moderately sized two way vented box speaker meets its design parameters. And as far as I know it is a decent speaker. But regardless of how good it is, it is still a moderately sized two way vented box speaker. And because of that, it will have limitations. That is all I was trying to point out.

 

[Sal1950]

But regardless of how good it is, it is still a moderately sized two way vented box speaker.

AKA Monkey Coffins.

 

[maty]

To finish, just now I have listen to a new and very good 24/96 vinyl rip: Schubert Symphony No.5 & 8 Unfinished Symphony Klemperer (1964), Vinyl, Supercuts 2014, Hi-Q 180g, UK with the modded Q100 and I not missing bass. Great music and sound! With DR 13.

https://www.discogs.com/Schubert-Kl...nished-Symphony-No-5-In-B-Fla/release/6409650

Of course, with two subs the 5.25" coaxial would be much more relieved and the boxes would have lower internal resonances with what, in addition to the greater extent of bass, would have a clear-cut and ampulous sound.

Before spending a lot of money on boutique components is better to spend a little on adding mass and cushioning to the loudspeakers, I think.

- End off topic -

 

[digicidal]

Once you find a speaker that has no flaws, let me know. Not being a crank. Just serious.

Naturally... however, my quip (and in context only) was that a more flawed design shouldn't be viewed as positive even in the context of being nostalgic. Not only was it directed the the conclusion quoted by @watchnerd , but also the "verdict pane":

Were the JBL 4429 a brand new, clean-sheet design, it might easily be ridiculed - but taken as a taste of a better and vanished time, there is much to recommend it.

Now I certainly can't speak for the reviewer, since I don't know them personally - but I read this as saying "a flawed modern design is not recommended, while a flawed retro design is recommended." You might not disagree with that but I certainly do.

Just because I might want a retro-styled piece of furniture... I wouldn't want it painted with lead-based paint.

 

[watchnerd]

Naturally... however, my quip (and in context only) was that a more flawed design shouldn't be viewed as positive even in the context of being nostalgic. Not only was it directed the the conclusion quoted by @watchnerd , but also the "verdict pane":


Now I certainly can't speak for the reviewer, since I don't know them personally - but I read this as saying "a flawed modern design is not recommended, while a flawed retro design is recommended." You might not disagree with that but I certainly do.

Just because I might want a retro-styled piece of furniture... I wouldn't want it painted with lead-based paint.

Yeah, I thought that was an odd statement, too.

And more to the point, if one does want to listen to retro designs from time to time just for fun....nothing wrong with that...but get a real legitimate vintage speaker.

$5000 seems a lot to spend for a "novelty speaker", especially when you can have genuine novelty in the form of legit old speakers for far less.