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JBL HDI-3600 Speaker Review

RayDunzl

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Finally the waterfall:

index.php

General question:

I asked this before, on another speaker... don't think there was an answer.

What causes the long ridges in the displays at low frequencies?


Some others:

1600129537891.png 1600129587798.png
 

BYRTT

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General question:

I asked this before, on another speaker... don't think there was an answer.

What causes the long ridges in the displays at low frequencies?


Some others:

View attachment 83004 View attachment 83005

Z-axis cover not more than 4-5mS in those examples and such setting is probably so we can see the slices in first wavefront for mids and highs, but in there is a low cut ringing roll off in lows that have much longer cycles than setting of Z-axis then roll off ridges at lows looks so dominating, below REW animation toggle a clean impulse response created in Rephase @48kHz with a bandpass having 4th order @54Hz Linkwitz Riley stopband and 2nd order @20kHz butterworth verse 2nd order butterworth stopbands @20Hz and @20kHz.

RayDunzl_x2x1_500mS.gif


Varied Z-axis..
RayDunzl_2_500mS.gif
 
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ctrl

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MasterMech

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So I went ahead & purchased a pair of these for my home theatre which has two rows with the rear row being on a riser.

The front row ear height is vertically 6 degrees below the tweeter.

The rear row ear height is vertically 3 degrees above the tweeter.

Now I know Amir said he recommends ear height to be below the tweeter but looking at the vertical directivity heat map I seem to be in the sweet spot for both rows or am I getting confused?

Attached I have marked 5 degrees above & 15 degrees below.
 

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Theriverlethe

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It looks like the HDI-1600 is a much better buy. The savings can easily go to an extra subwoofer with more ideal placement.
 

Sal1950

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It looks like the HDI-1600 is a much better buy. The savings can easily go to an extra subwoofer with more ideal placement.
Depends on your needs and point of view.
The 3600's bring a lot to the plate in additional bottom end muscle and efficiency.
I had 1600's here for over a month and sent them back to get the 3600s.
Also when you get to this level of cost/performance, the cost of diminishing returns rises rapidly.
Then if you really want to plumb the bottom octave, a couple subs are still required to take you there.\
YMMV
 

Theriverlethe

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Louder and cleaner ? even if you use a sub is any two way 6,5” design strong enough in the midbass ?

Here i’m All for the compromise of choosing 40 ish hz as the design goal for extension and assuming integration with subwoofers this gets you loud and clear performance in the range where they do work .

It is a nice engineering feat to produce small bookshelv speakers that extends to 30 hz it looks nice on paper but is meaningless as they never provide enough output in the bass anyway
Amir showed pretty good performance from the HDI-1600 6.5" woofer at 96dB @ 1M. Crossing over at a standard 80Hz should significantly improve those numbers. This will ultimately come down to room size/listening distance and SPL requirements. Eg., if you have a multi-row home theater you might consider the HDI-3600 over the HDI-1600. If you have an actual theater, you should be looking at a different class of product entirely.
 

Theriverlethe

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Depends on your needs and point of view.
The 3600's bring a lot to the plate in additional bottom end muscle and efficiency.
I had 1600's here for over a month and sent them back to get the 3600s.
Also when you get to this level of cost/performance, the level of diminishing returns rises rapidly.
Then if you really want to plumb the bottom octave, a couple subs are still required to take you there.\
YMMV

How large is your room and what's your listening distance? I have the HDI-1600 at 7' and they're more than enough.

It could also be an issue with subwoofer crossover. If it's not handled carefully, crossovers can actually cancel out and lead to a large null. Auto-room correction sometimes fails spectacularly at this. (Yes, even Dirac.)
 

Sal1950

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How large is your room and what's your listening distance? I have the HDI-1600 at 7' and they're more than enough.
Listening (area) is about 12'x18' but that also opens to another area about the same size.
Distance is right at 12', my system is linked in my signature.
But then what's "enough" is all relative. Not only in SPL but the lowed distortion of X not being driven so hard, etc, etc.
One mans ceiling is another mans floor. ;)
 

AVKS

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How large is your room and what's your listening distance? I have the HDI-1600 at 7' and they're more than enough.

It could also be an issue with subwoofer crossover. If it's not handled carefully, crossovers can actually cancel out and lead to a large null. Auto-room correction sometimes fails spectacularly at this. (Yes, even Dirac.)

And I listen to Studio 590s at 8-9 ft and will never go with smaller than that again if I can help it. There is no replacement for displacement and bigger speakers frequently just hit the spot in a way that smaller doesn't.
 

Theriverlethe

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Listening (area) is about 12'x18' but that also opens to another area about the same size.
Distance is right at 12', my system is linked in my signature.
But then what's "enough" is all relative. Not only in SPL but the lowed distortion of X not being driven so hard, etc, etc.
One mans ceiling is another mans floor. ;)
That's about the same size as my room, with a 9' ceiling. I just sit closer because I only have a 65" TV. I have a similar situation with asymmetry and got a second sub to mostly fill in a big 60Hz null. I have them in weird positions with one in a front corner to my left and one behind me on the opposite wall to my right.
 

Theriverlethe

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And I listen to Studio 590s at 8-9 ft and will never go with smaller than that again if I can help it. There is no replacement for displacement and bigger speakers frequently just hit the spot in a way that smaller doesn't.
I totally agree with "no replacement for displacement," which is why I have two 12" subs on opposing walls. This is slightly more displacement than four 8" woofers, but located in the best possible locations for the room.
 

Theriverlethe

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As an addendum, I believe multiple vertical drivers can help with SBIR, which always occurs with loudspeakers in normal-sized room. I was an idiot and had the HDI-1600 24" from a side wall on a 24" stand. This created a big null in the 100-200Hz region and a nasty peak around 500Hz that was smoothed out tremendously when I got 32" stands set up today. Unfortunately snipping tool wasn't working on my computer and I clicked "save measurement" instead of "save all measurements" in REW. But here's where I'm at now :facepalm::
 

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Alice of Old Vincennes

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And I listen to Studio 590s at 8-9 ft and will never go with smaller than that again if I can help it. There is no replacement for displacement and bigger speakers frequently just hit the spot in a way that smaller doesn't.
Studio 290 at same distance. I agree. Even with sub, two 8 inch subwoofers nail midbase. Sub integration is difficult.
 

Theriverlethe

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2 woofers in each tower.
I don’t doubt their output capability, but there’s no reason to think they’re more capable than good subwoofers. The other problem with full range towers is limited flexibility in placement. Unless you have measurements to show, there’s not really anything to talk about. Any number of things could be going on, including poorly placed subwoofers and crossover integration.
 

Sal1950

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I don’t doubt their output capability, but there’s no reason to think they’re more capable than good subwoofers. The other problem with full range towers is limited flexibility in placement. Unless you have measurements to show, there’s not really anything to talk about. Any number of things could be going on, including poorly placed subwoofers and crossover integration.
I'm not sure where the others are at, but as I said earlier
"if you really want to plumb the bottom octave, a couple subs are still required to take you there"
with any of these guys.
It takes a lot more muscular towers than any of these to deliver 20hz bass reasonably fat.
 
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