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JBL has disappointed me.

Aussie Steve

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Hi, I first owned JBL Control 5/Pro111 speakers in 1991 with Denon system. In 2013 I saved and bought a pair of 4307 speakers from Japan. I was so excited, they cost me a lot of money. I own Naim {UK company,} and when I played the JBL's they were terrible! One tweeter buzzed, and the midranges sounded bad. I love the look of them though! I sold them for very little money, but being a JBL fan I spent all my money on JBLS4700 Synthesis speakers. They sound very good, although I feel the crossover between bass driver and compression drivers is not perfect. I have to say, I have NO training in electrical systems, I can hardly understand basic electricity {sadly true}. I followed the ideas of Japanese JBL fans with large speakers in small rooms, and I have my system in a spare room, 3 x 3.4m so it is very small. I was contemplating saving for a pair of JBL4319 speakers but I just read your review and I am grateful now. I am too emotional about brands, I bought a Gibson Les Paul years ago because Ace Frehley from KISS played one! Anyway, my logic was telling me the JBL studio monitors were perhaps not great in todays world, and I sense now from your test review they are not. I will post more again, I just wanted to say G'day from down under, and thanks for a great forum.
 

A800

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Welcome!
 

Soniclife

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"They" know that :)
You must judge each model on it's own merits.
Would it be as "good" if it was produced by "Unknown Audio Systems" ?
It would be just as good, but you might not buy it.
Recognising you have been making emotional decisions is an important step towards making better ones.
 

PaulD

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Anyway, my logic was telling me the JBL studio monitors were perhaps not great in todays world, and I sense now from your test review they are not. I will post more again, I just wanted to say G'day from down under, and thanks for a great forum.
The current crop of JBL studio monitors are awesome, the M2, 708P and 705P monitors are top of the range (I use them daily). You owe it to yourself to hear some. Amir tested the 705 to great acclaim, see here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/jbl-705p-studio-monitor-review.11944/
 

anmpr1

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1) In 2013 I saved and bought a pair of 4307 speakers from Japan. I was so excited, they cost me a lot of money. I own Naim {UK company,} and when I played the JBL's they were terrible!

2) I bought a Gibson Les Paul years ago because Ace Frehley from KISS played one!

1) My rule is to never ever buy a speaker that you can't live with for a few weeks, and then return with free shipping if you don't like it. Buying something exotic from the other side of the world is a big risk.

2) I recall reading an interview, I think it was the Kiss guy, but it might have been someone else. Anyhow, a reporter asked about 'his most important guitar', and he replied it was a cheapy from Sears or something like that. The reporter was incredulous, but the player explained that the most important instrument is the one you learn on, and the one that peaks your interest for future work.
 

GXAlan

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For your S4700, you can upgrade to a digital crossover:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?35028-S3900-S4700-dbx-DriveRack-260

For the 4319, I will run some numbers with the tweeter dial turned down.

One good question is “Why are you a JBL fan?” There is a good chance that the music you listen to or preferred tonal balance you have is different from the most POPULAR target. The S4700 is a more neutral sounding JBL whereas something like the L100 has a sound signature that it imparts to the music.
 
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Aussie Steve

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For your S4700, you can upgrade to a digital crossover:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?35028-S3900-S4700-dbx-DriveRack-260

For the 4319, I will run some numbers with the tweeter dial turned down.

One good question is “Why are you a JBL fan?” There is a good chance that the music you listen to or preferred tonal balance you have is different from the most POPULAR target. The S4700 is a more neutral sounding JBL whereas something like the L100 has a sound signature that it imparts to the music.
Hi The crossover is good, I suspect the room plays a part. I have spoken to DEQX who make units which have DSP and the ability to adjust phase, time, and the like which I put in touch with Greg Timbers. He uses it now for his Everest model to allow for tubes to the midrange and solid state to the bass drivers. I haven't tried it yet but it appears very useful, and the signal is corrected and then sent to the amplifiers negating the need to remove the passive crossovers. At first the s4700's seemed weak, but over time the new Naim kit and speakers settled in and the sound is addictive, the bass outstanding. I love big bass drivers!
 
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Aussie Steve

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1) My rule is to never ever buy a speaker that you can't live with for a few weeks, and then return with free shipping if you don't like it. Buying something exotic from the other side of the world is a big risk.

2) I recall reading an interview, I think it was the Kiss guy, but it might have been someone else. Anyhow, a reporter asked about 'his most important guitar', and he replied it was a cheapy from Sears or something like that. The reporter was incredulous, but the player explained that the most important instrument is the one you learn on, and the one that peaks your interest for future work.
agreed, the trouble with try before buy here in Australia is they don't like it and rarely do it sadly. As for the Les Paul I love the sustain, and after buy,ing a DSL tube amp the mids and highs are as creamy as anything. Australian retailers are in many ways an arrogant bunch, they, rarely invest in decent acoustic control in their "showrooms". Thanks for your advice.
 

direstraitsfan98

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My room is similar in size to yours and my speakers somewhat similar in design goals too. Your S4700 is a beautiful speaker and you'll be hard pressed to find a worthy replacement without spending significantly more. I don't think you made a mistake in purchasing it. Listen to some Rush and Led Zeppelin, cus thats what these things were made to rock out on! :D
 
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Aussie Steve

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G'day, mate, I agree completely, although after a couple hundred hours of trying to understand the voodoo of acoustics and building panels to tame the room modes I concede large drivers need space to breath. It's been a very hard, and expensive lesson to learn but I feel it's true. Now, that said at first I thought the speakers and kit sounded thin and sad. However after many, hours of working in the speakers (and Naim kit) really,, really rock. Van Halen album Balance today sounds awesome, the bass has opened up and the kit has settled in and wow! Because I sit only 6ft or so from the speakers the top end horn is bright, however that is no fault I feel with the speakers just a small room. I am planning on bringing the system into the loungeroom that will take some support from my wife. I do however fully agree the speakers are very good. I had the opportunity when I bought them to buy, 4365 monitors which have the 4" midrange of the K2, however their bass driver was more suited to a midbass driver with a secondary LF bass driver to complement and at the time cash$$$ was tight. That said for my humble kit the 2216ND bass driver is tight and Very good. Neo magnets may not be Alnico but they are not far off. If I had the cash I'd use a DEQX preamp and use tubes on top and a powerful s/s for the bass. True story, I spoke to DEQX in Australia in 2014 and explained my needs, they contacted Greg Timbers, now ex JBL and he now uses them to do just that for his Everest. I'm a nobody, but I learned how they, and horn speakers can benefit. Just a thought. Thanks for y,our advice and support.
 
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Aussie Steve

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Hi again, I think y,our 4367 speakers are great. I don't have the cash for ATC or PMC, however be it said they are Very, accurate studio monitors. Very, cool however unless the signal you give them is clean they will present the the "accurate" signal with all it's flaws. We need a great DAC and clock and server ect, ect ect to give them a sound which we/ y,ou and I like. Our speakers with good quality hifi produce great sound, very, great sound, speakers which are too accurate for a medium system show up Every flaw, they are designed to. Many, Naim users use a Chord DAC because it creates the sound which is tubeish. My, speakers have a brighter top end than yours, but I'm 51 and I cannot hear above 17kHz! Dig your speakers, invest in acoustic panels or make them, they really do help, but in the end remember a say,ing I heard too late in my journey, "Audiophiles listen to their equipment, Music lovers listen to the music" I spent $15K on cables before I bought a decent DAC. I am willing to accept my naive emotion. Music first, system last. Rock On!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Koeitje

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Hi again, I think y,our 4367 speakers are great. I don't have the cash for ATC or PMC, however be it said they are Very, accurate studio monitors.!!

I had a "cheap" PMC speaker, the Twenty.22, and I wasn't impressed. It had real issues with noise from the port when playing loud and low. The DIY speakers I had did much better, and so do my M106's. Maybe it was just a bad transmission line implementation.

What I've seen in measurements both PMC and ATC aren't great...
 

DSJR

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Not sure PMC's domestic range is anything like the pro stuff these days, although the only possible contender to straddle both camps I've heard as a kind-of crossover model is the Fact Fenestria, which is passive, much more domestically acceptable (to wealthy domestic bods) than the evil looking expensive active QB1 studio model and *needs* a large room for the bass to work properly (or loads of DSP ina smaller room). ATC actives, especially the three ways, do 'sound' very good in smaller to mid size UK rooms, but I've no idea how they compare to the best from the Harman, Genelec or Neumann stable these days. I suspect today, active ATC's are to 'our' home market what good vintage JBL is to yours in the US? (I have heard the 4367 and love 'em to bits).
 

Sean k

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The horns in the 4700 are crossed at 800 and 12khz.

In a small room, 800hz compression horn is too much IMO and needs to be crossed higher to get rid of that overwhelming midrange.

15’s beam above 800, (which is why they are crossed at 800, so in a big room off axis above 800hz fall off is sever with a 15 inch driver but in a small room it doesn’t matter, as you likely can’t get that far off axis, you’re sitting directly in the beam. This also keeps wall reflections above 800 Hz out of your ear, clarity... where a wide dispersion compression horn is bouncing all over the walls, eww!

I personally have a set of Mr925’s which i ditched the internal passive and actively crossed over with a dbx drive rack, i’ve spent a lot of time experimenting with different crossovers and different slopes with this set up, 925s are known for extremely nasally mid range, and with the stock passive filters they definitely are. I recently moved, have them in a room 3x smaller, The speakers are designed to throw so this issue needed to be addressed. This is when I decided to bi amp the 925’s

Confirmed by an rta my 15 inch Jbl2232h plays fairly up high, around 4khz with no eq playing pink noise. I set the 24 db BW at 5K (gives a boost at cross over compared to other filter slopes, helps the 15 above 4k)between the 15 and the compression driver, suprise it sounds better, much better. The horn no longer overwhelms the midrange, no reflections from wide dispersion, and it seems to clear up the top end. Not having a cross right in the vocal range gives speech a more natural sound. I find I don’t have to change EQ settings for different program material. I was extremely surprised the 15s would take the 5K cross but I now think I understand why it works.

In a larger room this doesn’t work well, and you need efficiency of the horn, also the 15 beaming issue above 800 becomes very noticeable when moving around the room.

So basically what I’m trying to say is if you were in a small room, the compression drivers are too much. They’re designed to be used in larger rooms. And if you’re going to put them in a small room raising the crossover above 3500 helps immensely I found 5K sounded the best.

Over 5,000 watts of power in a small room is really fun! 2x18’s in 20sqft @30hz with 3600watts is awesome! Also 450x2 to the 15’s and 280x2 to each compression driver. Especially with movies! Your soul vibrates.

Also, I find adjusting the crossover as much as possible to get the sound you want, and you’d be surprised how little EQ you need. I know my example is with a different set of speakers, But I believe many of the principles are the same
 

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tomtoo

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"..2x18’s in 20sqft @30hz with 3600watts is awesome! .."

I would love it! My neighbours not so much. ;)
 
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