OP
- Thread Starter
- #21
That looks like a nice option. Alas, I can't find anyone selling it in the US. A couple of ebay listings have it at $1,200 for the smaller one.
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JBL DS4086 8-channel Car Amp & DSP Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #22
Hard to find that one in US as well. I need to buy it from likes of Amazon so I can return it if it doesn't work.
They do have an amped one with dirac https://www.minidsp.com/products/ca...j0wkQJP91VD0MQCD7ena0gYG434rXgzc6nuVV3oQkh3TO
OP
- Thread Starter
- #24
Ah, didn't know that. Power seems quite low though:
| Power output | 12 x 40 W RMS (4 Ω load, BTL mode) |
That means normal output is just 20 watts or less. Likely uses traditional class AB chip amp.
jannek
Active Member
You have a PM.
Hard to find DSP amps that are powerful enough, good enough and relatively cheap. however, you could still find good cheap DSP's and mate them to good cheap multi channel amplifier. you can find models that are relatively compact if space is a problem. also, that way you can choose the DSP & amps according to your needs.
You can btl pairs of channels:
"each pair of outputs can be configured in parallel BTL mode for 80 W output into 2 Ω loads"
There is also this one for higher power:
www.arcaudio.com
Car Audio | DSP Amplifiers | Blackbird Amplifier
The Blackbird has arrived! With 1000W of combined power across 8 channels and 12 channels of DSP control, the Blackbird is the all-in-one solution you have been waiting for.
www.arcaudio.com
A couple of thoughts:
It's a Mercedes Van...unless you are insulating like crazy the vehicle noise will overwhelm any amp noise while driving. While parked you will need to play low volume to not disturb neighbors or inquiry from nosey bears.
I would rather sink money into an electrical system (battery storage/charging) and use powered speakers. Why mess with a bunch of speaker wires?
Just me though. If someone else was doing the work, I might think differently.
It's a Mercedes Van...unless you are insulating like crazy the vehicle noise will overwhelm any amp noise while driving. While parked you will need to play low volume to not disturb neighbors or inquiry from nosey bears.
I would rather sink money into an electrical system (battery storage/charging) and use powered speakers. Why mess with a bunch of speaker wires?
Just me though. If someone else was doing the work, I might think differently.
JL vxi is also nice stuff. All channels driven are the power ratings and usually under rated. The guys that designed all the cool old school amps (PPI, Xtant, etc) design these ones. DSP with measurement software overlay and control via tun 4. Upgraded multi mic system that can also be used with the JL MAX measurement system (not cheapest) but WAY cheaper than Klippel/AP stuff!
www.garmin.com
They also are network capable up to 10 amps via the vxi hub so you can control over all of them with a single USB cable.
JL Audio MAX Audio Measurement System | Garmin
MAX is a professional-grade, 5 microphone, audio measurement system for system tuning with DSP and analyzing audio systems.
www.garmin.com
They also are network capable up to 10 amps via the vxi hub so you can control over all of them with a single USB cable.
Crutchfield has some of the best return policies out there. They might even have a harness or install kit for you.
There is even an open box MATCH 8DSP where you save $100 and don’t have to feel guilty if you end up returning it.
The specs aren’t as good for the Match in terms of noise vs the Helix, and the EQ is GEQ with one PEQ, but it’s probably good enough knowing that FR irregularities are masked with stereo.
The Match DSP setups do have user adjustable input sensitivity (via the PC software tool).
Also can buy them here
resonixsoundsolutions.com
Shop - Helix DSP's & DSP Amplifiers
ResoNix Sound Solutions, the only authorized internet retailed for all Audiotec Fischer products.
resonixsoundsolutions.com
It’s tricky.
Equalizer
www.audiotec-fischer.de
You have a graphic EQ which you can fine tune the Q and exact freq which makes it partially parametric, but you cannot overlap two adjacent bands. That was my understanding of my setup which is the older Match 7UP BMW.
But then they say there is a PEQ mode. It might depend on the CPU if it is the 32-bit or 8-bit processor. The software is the same for multiple levels of products. I will check my own Match 7UP later.
Tagging @Dumdum who may be able to shed some light.
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Nice review. I wonder how well it would perform in practice. Multitone distortion or noise would be the main concern, and I wouldn't hazard to guess if the measurements would have a perceived impact or not. It would be great to see something like this with a bit more power and a bit better performance in as compact a package.
I would second the recommendation for Helix products: the V8 and V10 are quite nice and are the only game in town for center channel support unless audiofrog ever releases their DSP. It would also be great to see an AP measurement suite performed on something in their line
Audison has a mixed reputation but I'm unfamiliar with their products.
Some Musway products were measured by Nerijus Kochanskas (Raw-Cat) and performed well. The D8v3 has what look to be class leading specifications
I would second the recommendation for Helix products: the V8 and V10 are quite nice and are the only game in town for center channel support unless audiofrog ever releases their DSP. It would also be great to see an AP measurement suite performed on something in their line
Audison has a mixed reputation but I'm unfamiliar with their products.
Some Musway products were measured by Nerijus Kochanskas (Raw-Cat) and performed well. The D8v3 has what look to be class leading specifications
For hassle free overriding of OEM systems I'm a big fan of the compact kicker key range. I run the 200.4 for active front stage (separate tweeter and woofers) and then a 500.1 for the sub, both hidden in a side pocket in the boot of my old 2012 Audi S4 (they are very compact).
Just wire it up, place the included mic wherever you want it, and let the inbuilt auto dsp do the rest. Worked like a charm for me and sounds great, with the only downside being the relatively low power in regards the 200.4, but it's loud enough really, I just want it deafeningly loud for the odd song
Just wire it up, place the included mic wherever you want it, and let the inbuilt auto dsp do the rest. Worked like a charm for me and sounds great, with the only downside being the relatively low power in regards the 200.4, but it's loud enough really, I just want it deafeningly loud for the odd song
OP
- Thread Starter
- #37
FYI this is an airstream interstate RV. So the back is full insulated and finished. There is fair amount of noise in front but it is not remotely like a work van.
Airstream had swapped out the head unit for a Kenwood running Android circa 2016. With a slow processor and clunky UI where you had to log in every time to use the system (!) it has been a pain although its Garmin navigation is a nice back up to Google maps. The sound is mediocre at best, mostly composed of midrange and highs. When driving on freeways, you have to crank it up, resulting in sound that is borderline annoying, although fairly better with new JBL speakers I put in.
My original hope was just to spend a bit of money on DSP and actively drive the fronts and improve things without too much expense. My brother has relocated here who has done car audio install/repairs for decades. So the work of redoing it is not a major factor anymore.
The JBL would have fit the bill if it didn't run so darn hot. Whatever I do needs to be reliable as getting stuck on vacation with no sound would be disaster!
Alas, I have this disease where anything I want to do, eventually becomes a quest for the best thing that can be done.
So just ordered another set of speakers (the current ones in the door are just 4 inchers), to go with this expensive Audioson amp&dsp, assuming they perform.Getting bass is another challenge. That part to come next.
ROOSKIE
Major Contributor
For folks who are voting very low on the panther scale, are you familiar with car audio? (I voted 3/4)
While far from an idealized product, I'm going to buy this and I will explain why. I did go back and forth with this review adding a bit of hesitation and drama.
Awhile ago I pulled my nice custom stereo out of my old 2007 CRV as the plan was to sell that car as it was just extra extra to keep it. After a few months we decided to keep it after all but now all the old equipment was sold. Preparing for sale I had put two inexpensive sets of 'RECOIL REM65' component speakers in the vehicle and an inexpensive JVC headunit. Hopeful it was good enough for us we have been giving it a shot, in reality that equipment is not good enough.
Really the budget is fluidish but ideally not big. This is an older car that has already had a couple very nice system in it. I just want great now not awesome. I've been shopping around for a few weeks. I went back and forth with several options. The MARCH unit mentioned here is tempting as the next closest 'all in one' DSP& in price to the JBL DS4086/ Infinity DSP6840. But that is $1000 (or $1300 for 10channels) vs $300 JBL/Infinity actual street prices. The MARCH has not been tested either, might not be that much better.
I need 9 channels total(8+1 with high power for a sub channel), DSP and ideally all in one for this & it must fit under one of the front seats. (there are some advanced headunits that could substitute for the amp being DSP smart but I already have 2 head units that can't quite do that but are here needing a home)
The JBL/Infinity has full DSP & 8channels of 40-50watts of <1% THD car audio power. For the active set-up I'm doing that should be good, especially as the drivers are all 3ohms nominal(the mid woofers are actually 2.25ohms) and fairly sensitive, all of them except the sub bass being around [email protected]. I can find nothing that offers this simplicity for this price point.
I will need 1 more channel for the sub bass but that is not going to cost very much or add much complexity here, man basic 1 or 2 channel car amps are cheap these days.
I will never be sitting in the car listening with the motor off, when the light is not red I will be on roads moving in an old 2007 CRV. I often have the windows open. The THD, Noise and other measurements issues will not be an issue in any way ever. It will be under the front passenger seat so heat will not be an issue (actually the climate control vents under there so if the fan is on it will cool the amp). Historically I've used 150watt per channel amps. The main crux was is this amp presenting enough power to play loudly from time to time and I think 45-70watts per channel is in a car. I'm sure what I had before was overkill.
Anyway Thanks Amir and did you check post 13? I think it has 47watts at 4ohms @ 1% THD not 23watts. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Would you verify if the review has a mistake or if I'm goofy.
While far from an idealized product, I'm going to buy this and I will explain why. I did go back and forth with this review adding a bit of hesitation and drama.
Awhile ago I pulled my nice custom stereo out of my old 2007 CRV as the plan was to sell that car as it was just extra extra to keep it. After a few months we decided to keep it after all but now all the old equipment was sold. Preparing for sale I had put two inexpensive sets of 'RECOIL REM65' component speakers in the vehicle and an inexpensive JVC headunit. Hopeful it was good enough for us we have been giving it a shot, in reality that equipment is not good enough.
Really the budget is fluidish but ideally not big. This is an older car that has already had a couple very nice system in it. I just want great now not awesome. I've been shopping around for a few weeks. I went back and forth with several options. The MARCH unit mentioned here is tempting as the next closest 'all in one' DSP& in price to the JBL DS4086/ Infinity DSP6840. But that is $1000 (or $1300 for 10channels) vs $300 JBL/Infinity actual street prices. The MARCH has not been tested either, might not be that much better.
I need 9 channels total(8+1 with high power for a sub channel), DSP and ideally all in one for this & it must fit under one of the front seats. (there are some advanced headunits that could substitute for the amp being DSP smart but I already have 2 head units that can't quite do that but are here needing a home)
The JBL/Infinity has full DSP & 8channels of 40-50watts of <1% THD car audio power. For the active set-up I'm doing that should be good, especially as the drivers are all 3ohms nominal(the mid woofers are actually 2.25ohms) and fairly sensitive, all of them except the sub bass being around [email protected]. I can find nothing that offers this simplicity for this price point.
I will need 1 more channel for the sub bass but that is not going to cost very much or add much complexity here, man basic 1 or 2 channel car amps are cheap these days.
I will never be sitting in the car listening with the motor off, when the light is not red I will be on roads moving in an old 2007 CRV. I often have the windows open. The THD, Noise and other measurements issues will not be an issue in any way ever. It will be under the front passenger seat so heat will not be an issue (actually the climate control vents under there so if the fan is on it will cool the amp). Historically I've used 150watt per channel amps. The main crux was is this amp presenting enough power to play loudly from time to time and I think 45-70watts per channel is in a car. I'm sure what I had before was overkill.
Anyway Thanks Amir and did you check post 13? I think it has 47watts at 4ohms @ 1% THD not 23watts. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong. Would you verify if the review has a mistake or if I'm goofy.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #39
There is a discrepancy there between the power sweep vs max and peak measurements. The latter tests repeatedly push the amp into clipping so maybe it distorts more when it happens. I repeated that test a few times and kept getting the same values.
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