JBL and The American Audiophiles

[xr100]

The Dutch JBL site is basically just headphones and Bluetooth speakers. It's a joke.

The UK one is, too. In fact, glancing at the Dutch one, they appear to be identical.

At a recent "social gathering," someone was talking about portable speakers and quipped that they'd heard "JBL is good." I kept my mouth shut! Mr. James B. Lansing's brand has long been abused and applied to junk--though in the portable market I guess "JBL" has become, sort of, to Samsung what Beats Audio is to Apple?

It must be said that, though, that the UK hi-fi press has often been less than generous in its reviews of speakers from American companies.

I see Richer Sounds still sell the Control 1 (at £49/pair at the moment, which is a pretty nice price for speakers that would be fine for use in the kitchen or other secondary applications, e.g. if one has spare amplifiers knocking about...)

Peter Tyson currently stocks the L100 and 4312G. Not sure what else is available in the UK, looks very slim pickings indeed for "non-toy" products outside of pro markets.

 

[SIY]

B) Rectilinear had limited exposure through some select dealers. The idea was neutral sound, but the price was generally high given what was alternately available. One of their engineers, Martin Gersten, left Rectilinear to work out (more or less and as best he could) the Ohm implementation of Lincoln Walsh's conical driver. Rectilinear was a tech driven speaker company, but were never a household name.

From another post about speaker time-alignment I wrote:

The earliest commercial designs I recall that discussed 'time alignment' were from the erstwhile Rectilinear company. I'm not saying Rectilinear was the first, but they are the first I recall. The company was a who's who of designers: James Bongiorno, Jon Dahlquist, and Richard Shahinian were present at one time or another. [Bongiorno would 'fondly' recall how the company owner was a cheating criminal who never paid him for his work.]

In 1969-70 (several years before the introduction of the DQ-10) Rectilinear came out with their model Xa, which was supposed to deal with 'time delay' distortion. That speaker was not 'time aligned' based on physical geometry, but rather used electro-mechanics. The woofer came in at 100Hz, with the HF taking over at 8KHz, leaving six octaves handled by the 5 inch mid-cone. Thus, mid-range frequencies were 'acoustically isolated' in one driver, making 'time delay' across the entire system more negligible (and less noticable in the mid range, where, as Paul Klipsch always said, is 'where we live'.). A 'minimal phase' crossover network was designed along with special driver materials said to assist in the reduction of Doppler and IM distortion due to spurious cone excursions.

The speaker was nominal 4 ohms, and low sensitivity, requiring a minimum of 35-40 watts RMS (remember, this was a time when the 'average' receiver might not have that much power). So they were essentially selling a smallish 'bookshelf' speaker that needed something like the then very expensive Crown D-150 in order to drive it to realistic levels. Not the best recipe for commercial success.

I had four Rectilinear IIIs when I was a teenager. Loved them. Driven by mono-strapped Stereo 70s. We actually managed to get a ceiling to cave in from the bass on an organ recording, which felt like a triumph to 16-year-old me.

 

[anmpr1]

Mr. James B. Lansing's brand has long been abused and applied to junk--though in the portable market I guess "JBL" has become, sort of, to Samsung what Beats Audio is to Apple?

To contrast today's scene, here's JBL's turnkey systems. 1956 inflation corrected in USD the first column speaker would be $3500.00. And that is for one, since stereo was really not a thing back then.

 

[oldsysop]

Mr. James B. Lansing's brand has long been abused and applied to junk

 

[maxxevv]

Interestingly, JBL wasn't his first company.

That honour goes to Lansing. Acquired by Altec and morphed into Altec Lansing.

Sad to see that Altec is all but a shell nowadays.

 

[xr100]

Junk-But-Loud?

Perhaps measurements would show that they actually are high performance; the true bargains among JBL's products.

 

[rwortman]

I have used JBL car speakers and I have a JBL sub in my main HT system. I also have a pair of JBL "bookshelf" speakers in one of my small systems. I am using a pair of JBL powered monitors in my desktop system. Price/performance I have never been disappointed in a JBL product. I suspect their larger home audio speakers are bargains. The M2 monitor from the pro division may be the lowest distortion loudspeaker available and, although expensive, is probably not bettered by any speaker at any price. (I have not heard them and probably shouldn't as I really don't want to spend that much on a pair of speakers)

 

[q3cpma]

I have used JBL car speakers and I have a JBL sub in my main HT system. I also have a pair of JBL "bookshelf" speakers in one of my small systems. I am using a pair of JBL powered monitors in my desktop system. Price/performance I have never been disappointed in a JBL product. I suspect their larger home audio speakers are bargains. The M2 monitor from the pro division may be the lowest distortion loudspeaker available and, although expensive, is probably not bettered by any speaker at any price. (I have not heard them and probably shouldn't as I really don't want to spend that much on a pair of speakers)

I've never seen any distorsion measurements for the M2 and I doubt it's the best in this kind of measurement.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

Consumer division isn't the same as the JBL Pro or Synthesis lines. Amir's post on the first page of this thread is fundementally wrong as well. JBL has and was still one of the only companies publishing measurements alongside their releases. There's little distortion issues on their commercially available loudspeakers that were used in many studios in the 70s and 80s.

https://adn.harmanpro.com/site_elem...563397316/4331a-and-4333a_manual_original.pdf
https://adn.harmanpro.com/site_elem..._1563397673/4430-and-4435_manual_original.pdf

@q3cpma The 2216Nd woofer used in the M2 and 4367 is designed for very low distortion down to 30hz. Below 30hz you will want a subwoofer to stay under single digit % THD. From 30hz and up the distortion numbers will be vanishingly low, much lower then most loudspeaker designs you could possibly find. I've seen third party measurements that show .45% THD at 100dB SPL @ 32hz. I would imagine that 30hz would be the same story here.

Anywho, I live, enjoy and listen to music with this speaker every day and I know what it's capable of and isn't capable of. I don't claim to be able to hear 1% THD at 100db SPL but at least I know that the numbers are lower then any other loudspeaker I've owned. You can't put a price on the comfort that knowledge brings to you.

I would like Amir to measure more speakers using 8", 12" and 15" woofers to see how they behave near peak output.

More measurements of the M2 over here. http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33972-JBL-Master-Reference-Monitor/page73

 

[anmpr1]

A related link to this thread can be found at the Secrets of Home Theater etc, site. Not sure what those 'secrets' are (maybe trying to figure out why a $3500.00 power conditioner is an important addition to your stereo system could be a secret they are willing to help solve). Anyhoo, David Rich (undoubtedly the best reviewer working for them and a man grounded in audio-reality) has a short article about the historical West Coast (JBL)-East Coast (AR) sound.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/editors-desk/now-a-word-from-the-east-coast/

Rich compares and contrasts early AR-3 variants with a later AR speaker that no one has ever heard of or listened to, along with the JBL thing. In a reference to some of Floyd Toole's work [Sound Reproduction – The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms] and the JBL 4310 and L100, Toole writes how they exhibited “...a collection of strong resonances that were audible, but seemingly ignored or admired by many.”

There was no 'seeming' about it, and definitely there was no big 'secret' needing to be unearthed. They sold because a vast number of consumers just plain didn't like the AR type of sound, which was closed in, dull, and essentially lifeless. Not only that, but required a lot of power to come alive, if you could even get it there. However all that was, it makes interesting history if you are interested in this sort of thing, and in context his article is worth reading.

And while you're over there maybe you can figure out the secret to those expensive power conditioners. In one power conditioner review the guy (not Rich) writes about listening to a song about a boat: I felt, for the first time, that I was actually inside of the boat. I completely get that. In fact, funny thing is, that's kind of how I felt when I first heard the AR3a--I felt like I was inside the speaker box--all muffled, cramped and claustrophobic... I was wishing it had a vent like the L100 so I could get out! LOL

 

[xr100]

And while you're over there maybe you can figure out the secret to those expensive power conditioners. In one power conditioner review the guy (not Rich) writes about listening to a song about a boat: I felt, for the first time, that I was actually inside of the boat.

(at "subjectivist" nonsense.)

I completely get that. In fact, funny thing is, that's kind of how I felt when I first heard the AR3a--I felt like I was inside the speaker box--all muffled, cramped and claustrophobic... I was wishing it had a vent like the L100 so I could get out! LOL

LOL!

 

[Certainkindoffool]

Where does the JBL Performance Series fit in? The PT800 were pretty expensive bookshelves ~$3400/pr, with woofers visually similar to those on the Revel Ultima line. Rated Specifications are only 80-22khz +/-6db.

 

[GXAlan]

The JBL Performance series was very good.

You can see the official spin data here:
https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com/2019/06/harman-consumer-brands-spinorama-data.html?m=1

Also made in USA. It supposedly shares drivers with the Revel Gem2. The subwoofer is crossed over pretty high if I recall, since it really was just a modular way to do a four way. The driver is the same 14” in the Array 1400 (see Stereophile review and measurements).

 

[Certainkindoffool]

The JBL Performance series was very good.

You can see the official spin data here:
https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com/2019/06/harman-consumer-brands-spinorama-data.html?m=1

Also made in USA. It supposedly shares drivers with the Revel Gem2. The subwoofer is crossed over pretty high if I recall, since it really was just a modular way to do a four way. The driver is the same 14” in the Array 1400 (see Stereophile review and measurements).

That is a great site, thanks for the referral!

 

[anmpr1]

You can see the official spin data here:
https://speakerdata2034.blogspot.com/2019/06/harman-consumer-brands-spinorama-data.html?m=1

Thanks for the link. One point made: Active speakers, such as many professional studio monitors quite often are designed to allow some audible hissing sound on idle There are active speakers that are virtually free from hiss at idle, but for example in case of popular JBL Pro 3-series, JBL Pro 7-series and even some JBL M2 setups there is an audible hiss.

I never read that before. Why would a six thousand dollar speaker (each) be 'designed to allow some audible hissing'? Even the cheaper monitors ought not to have it. But a high-end model like the M2? Has anyone heard the M2s and do they have an audible hiss at idle?