JBL A180 Tower Speaker Review

[Dj7675]

Have to remember it is Harmonic Distortion in that graph, not a crackle or clipping.
Will very many folks hear 1.5-4% in that 800-2k zone - especially with the bulk of it 2nd order? Some extra energy added between 1600 and 6k. Maybe audible to select group, likely not very many folks.
Plus some of that is likely from the waveguide and not a driver misfiring.
Geddes blind testing strongly suggested such waveguide distortion is not audible even when in double digits.
I suspect IMD is low from the 2 big woofers so what is left is can the tweeter handle high SPL, and is tweeter IMD an issue?

I think that it is still surprising considering how clean the A130 measured. Same tweeter I assume? It is puzzling. I also wouldn't necessarily assume it can't be heard on this speaker. When you start to get to inexpensive speakers like this you always have to wonder about running changes and quality control issues as well.

 

[amirm]

I think that it is still surprising considering how clean the A130 measured. Same tweeter I assume? It is puzzling.

I think the second woofer is breaking up adding to distortion in that region. Hence my comment about the 2.5 way thing.

 

[Beave]

I think that it is still surprising considering how clean the A130 measured. Same tweeter I assume? It is puzzling. I also wouldn't necessarily assume it can't be heard on this speaker. When you start to get to inexpensive speakers like this you always have to wonder about running changes and quality control issues as well.

I don't think the distortion is coming from the tweeter. I think it's from the woofer - a larger, different woofer than the one in the Stage A130.

The Stage A130 uses a 5 1/4" woofer.

The Stage A180 uses two 6 1/2" woofers.

If I may make a generalization, a smaller woofer behaves better in its upper range, while a larger woofer behaves better in its lower range.

The Stage A180 woofers appear to have some breakup around 1.5kHz that isn't present on the smaller woofer on the Stage A130. From the plot of the nearfield responses, it appears that the bottom woofer has a notch filter around 1.5kHz to kill that breakup region. But the upper woofer, which needs to play a little higher, doesn't have that notch filter. The breakup is there in all its ugliness. I think that's where the distortion is coming from - the upper woofer playing a little higher than it really should.

Here is the Stage A130 driver response:

Notice how the woofer response is fairly clean in the 1-2kHz region. It does show some breakup around 2.5kHz (higher in frequency than the breakup of the larger woofer), but this is above the crossover and is being filtered somewhat by the lowpass filter on the woofer.

Now look at the driver responses for the Stage A180:

The lower woofer has a deep notch around 1.2kHz. The upper woofer has a bump there. That bump is where the distortion occurs. The fact that the lower woofer has a deep notch filter on it, not just a lowpass filter with a lower cutoff frequency, tells me that JBL was aware of the breakup of these woofers in this region.


The Stage A170 model, which uses the same drivers as the A130 (two of the 5 1/4" woofers), should be cleaner in this region - at the expense of less bass/higher distortion in the bass compared to this Stage A180 model.

EDIT NOTES: I made some additional statements for clarity.

 

[Haint]

The brightness >2kHz is mostly caused by the wide vertical dispersion of the tweeter. As better seen in the Early Reflections breakout, I’d recommend a thick rug and either tall ceilings or ceiling treatment (so a dedicated listening space).

I used them for 2-3 weeks in a with a room with extensive treatments (including ceiling) and carpet with 10lb pad. They still trend brighter than an F35 or M16 for example, but not objectionably so. There is a sense of more detail in isolation, but a more artificial and less natural sound in a comparison. It should be emphasized this is a fairly subtle "brightness", they're nowhere close to an entry level Klipsch or B&W that shelves the treble up 10dB+. There are no 20dB low-Q mountains or canyons here. I expect the vast vast majority of people listening to this speaker in a proper environment would rate them at least "good", with many arriving on very good or excellent.

 

[Nonick]

Measurements of JBL Stage A180 from hometheaterhifi.com

Measurements of JBL Stage A190 from audio.com.pl

 

[abdo123]

A crossover filter can be designed to bring down 1.4Khz and boost the 2Khz region up at the same time right?

 

[uwotm8]

Thanks for a review! My immediate guess after look on graphs was, well, a "cheap" harsh sound (had some experience with buget JBL in past).
Distortion is horrid, floorstander are actually those speakers you probably will drive to 90+ dB.
There's two kinds of JBL: "classic" horn monitors and L-series made for good sound and cinematic boombox kits like these

 

[uwotm8]

it is still surprising considering how clean the A130 measured

Actually no surprizes, just find how differently Northridge E measured: from total junk to very good (FR at least) depending on... I don't know. E80 were the best AFAIR.
Anyway there was a badly designed titanium tweeter in all models - and that made ears bleed

 

[375HP2482]

Seems like there may be at least two different things going on in the "War Zone." One is that one (or both!) of the woofers aren't working properly. That seems likely as the smaller A130 woofers don't exhibit this kind of breakup.

The other is the design of the lower woofer rolloff filter, which may have a shunt C on it. A conventional approach rolls off the lower woofer at a lower frequency (say, 300 Hz) with one inductor to avoid phase-shift cancellations and limit the vocal range to one driver.

 

[sarakyel]

I still wonder why JBL rotated out the Arena series so fast only to get it replaced with the Stage series... Manufacturing costs? Material availability? Every Stage model that I heard sounded worse than its Arena counterpart, starting with the Stage A180 vs. Arena 180. A real shame.

 

[DSJR]

Back when the 2.5 way thing started over here (B&W and KEF were reviewed, not altogether successfully compared to the two ways at bargain prices they made then), the lower bass driver was relieved of most midrange duties and only augmented the bottom octaves I seem to remember (I think the crossover on the lower unit was set to lower hundred Hertz from memory), this back then causing some 'thickening' of male speech. These new drivers much be better than that, so it'd be interesting to see what could happen if JBL reduced the low pass frequency of the bottom driver a fair bit to leave the upper unit alone for upper mid duties? The 15kHz peak isn't an issue really in-room for most post 35 year old males I suspect...

 

[Presently42]

I've been eagerly anticipating this review, as I'm strongly considering upgrading to 4.1; and wanted to complement the A130 I already have. If I'm to acquire towers, I would have them to go to at least 40 Hz, for a really solid subwoofer crossover; which rules out the A170. This or the A190, then, were the obvious choices. But alas, it seems the Stage series has one star on the scene, and a bunch of lesser filler acts comprising the rest. I'm most saddened.

Out of curiosity, @amirm, why'd you choose to review the A180 as opposed to the A190?

 

[Toni Mas]

I agree the slope of the predicted in room response is too weak, but also this curve is very even, so that classical tone controls would surely help to get a less bright, more relaxed, tonal balance.
For me the real issue are the cone resonances around 2khz. It looks like the midwoofer has cone break up much too early around the crossover frequency, and this is hopeless. I am afraid that this speaker will sound bright, and also with harsh midforwardness...

 

[thewas]

I find it weird that they let the second woofer run so high causing also the vertical problems in the mids. When you choose to go 2.5 instead of 2 way you do it much lower for the exact reason to avoid those, plus the second woofer is usually used as a baffle step compensation filling up the FR below it. Would be interesting to hear the reasoning of one of the Harman engineers behind it.

 

[Draki]

For 200 $ - delivered - this is a great fun project for a competent DIY-er! Can't make the boxes alone with that level of finish.

 

[Loathecliff]

Has this speaker had more than one incarnation?!

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/floor-standing/jbl-stage-a180-loudspeaker-review/

I had the opportunity to contact Mr. An Nguyen, one of the designers of the JBL Stage A180 loudspeakers. He revealed to me that JBL conducted double-blind listening tests to compare the Stage series speakers to competitors in their price class. Winning this in-house competition was considered a primary design goal for the A180s, and Mr. Nguyen stated that they considered the goal met. Would that all manufacturers took this type of comparison into account for quality control of their products

 

[Toni Mas]

Generally products in this price range are not targeted to trained listeners, though marketers try to make sure that some minimums are covered within their competitive set.

 

[sarumbear]

I only paid $200 for the pair on sale including free shipping! Normal price I think is $400.

Thank you for the review. The economics of scale is mind boggling. A huge value for money as far as speakers go.

Speaker does a lot of things right but that 2.5 way design is causing problems in upper midrange, lower treble. Is it worth it? I don't know.

Why would you blame the 2.5 way design? On such a design there is only one driver crossing over to the tweeter. The other low frequency driver would be cut off much lower than the "war zone" range, shouldn't it? Hence, even if the design was just 2 way the "war zone" mess would have stayed the same (obviously there will be much less bass).

Edit: I just saw your comment:

I think the second woofer is breaking up adding to distortion in that region. Hence my comment about the 2.5 way thing.

Interesting. If that is the case then it is a crossover/filter problem. It should be simple to tame the peaks when you are filtering highs at least an octave lower than the crossover frequency.

Is it possible to measure each low frequency driver separately?

 

[Toni Mas]

Hence, even if the design was just 2 way the "war zone" mess would have stayed the same (obviously there will be much less bass).

Agree, the main problem is not 2.5, rather that the midwoofer is crap, and there is no way to design a clean xover at a frequency required by a cheap tweeter, around 2khz.

 

[DSJR]

I first got to know of the less expensive JBL range by a review in HFN (I think) of the ten year plus old STAGE 180 model (with a kind of bow-tie stylee on the front). I think it came out ok for it's UK price of around £500 if memory serves, but it'd be interesting to know if anyone here ever tried a pair....