Agree.That's interesting, but that would shift the crossover closer to the woofer resonance which is at around 2.6kHz.....but like you say a steeper crossover to help mitigate that influence. I guess you're thinking the tweeter is playing too low and causing distortion at high levels, although the higher crossover wouldn't solve the 5-10kHz distortion and it wouldn't do anything to affect the messed up 600-1000Hz region that is being affected by bass port resonances. To be honest there's multiple fronts where this speaker looks like it needs to be improved on a design level, not to even mention the poor user integration related to the analog trim-pot ridiculousness.
But they could design out those issues right, even if it is 2-way. Tune the bass port differently perhaps so it doesn't have those destructive resonances that mess up the 600-1000Hz. Do something about the tweeter, install a more capable tweeter. I'm pretty sure they could fix it totally with some changes.....whether or not cabinet size & cost would stay the same I don't know.Agree.
A two-way speaker with big differences in size of the used drivers are always a compromise, active or passive.
Yes, that is why the graph scale is linear. The logarithmic part is already "embedded" in the dB relative unit.A little off subject, but why do frequency response graphs have dB as linear? Is a 2dB difference at 70dB sound level the same as a 2dB difference at 60dB?
Conclusions
At high level, the 708i provides more flexibility compared to integrated 708p. In practice, at least in the setup I tested, it proved fussy and rather difficult to optimize. Worst part is that it seems that the EQ profiles as provided by Harman are not accurate/representative of actual speaker samples.
It's worth noting that, as I pointed out in Part I, the engineers behind 7-Series were not bullish on the biamp option. They said it added little, and explicitly expressed a preference to me and many others around that time for a stronger amp channel in single amp mode over two channels in biamp mode. I wonder if that even carried over to the marketing, given the use of the audiophool term "biwire" instead of "biamp." Single-amp mode also moots out the analog pot matching issue. All that to say it may be worthwhile to test it in single-amp mode, though OTOH if my hunch that the tweeter's raw FR is the issue then it should have the same issue.But with 708p standing by, ready to go, I am not sure it is worth our while to keep testing and testing another configurations.
I can’t follow your logic. JBL says these speakers must be used with their own amplifiers. They are never intended to be be used by other amplifiers. In short they are part of a system.Hi
I understand and share the disappointment from the performances of this speaker. We , however must understand, that this speaker could well be for some specific, non-domestic purposes.
JBL tend to be very opaque and some time even clue-less about their own products but they are not/cannot stupid. Let us look at the prices (from Sweetwater.com) for the 708i and 708p, Respectively $1921.oo and $2095.oo, a difference of $174.oo.. Basically the same price, yeah I know $174 difference but, the 708p comes with 2 amps and DSP and DAC and connections.. a complete active speaker... If one needs to build a system based on the 708i you need at least a stereo amp and a DSP .. JBL recommends bi-amping thus you need 4 amps ... plus DSP... I am sure that such would not cost a total of $350,oo. This suggest other, different applications than what you would with the 708p... and they relegate control to ancilliary components. There is for example the JBL Intonato 24 which can control up to 24 (!!) JBL 7 series and can be networked with JBL BLU processor. It allows automatic room correction and speaker calibration, and can control/linearize up to 4 subwoofers, and is able to use more subwoofers for LFE, situations.. Those are applications very much out of the domestic/audiophile realm. The tediousness encountered by @amirm in configuring the 708 i could be alleviated/eliminated with the Intonato 24, since it does automatic monitor calibration... It cost about $4,000.oo, plus another $1000 for its desktop controller. In the case of the 708i you would still need powerful, DSP amplifiers with the appropriate filters, they would not cost $350.oo.
All that to say the 708p is is not a solution for the casual or even, invested audiophile. It is a pure Professional product, IMHO.
The 708 p OTOH, can be (is) used with great success in audiophile systems. I think I may go this route or, to impersonate @Pearljam5000 , Genelec The One or Neuman KH-xxx or ...
Peace.
If one needs to build a system based on the 708i you need at least a stereo amp and a DSP .. JBL recommends bi-amping thus you need 4 amps ...
There is for example the JBL Intonato 24 which can control up to 24 (!!) JBL 7 series and can be networked with JBL BLU processor. It allows automatic room correction and speaker calibration, and can control/linearize up to 4 subwoofers, and is able to use more subwoofers for LFE, situations.. Those are applications very much out of the domestic/audiophile realm. The tediousness encountered by @amirm in configuring the 708 i could be alleviated/eliminated with the Intonato 24, since it does automatic monitor calibration... It cost about $4,000.oo, plus another $1000 for its desktop controller. In the case of the 708i you would still need powerful, DSP amplifiers with the appropriate filters, they would not cost $350.oo.
I can’t follow your logic. JBL says these speakers must be used with their own amplifiers. They are never intended to be be used by other amplifiers. In short they are part of ay system.
One should be able to expect Neumann/Genelec-grade consistency from JBL but it seems clear that is not an expectation currently met in the real world.
I agree. I'd also put some money on a large number of the installers coming from a JBL Screen Array in larger spaces, who will be competent/familiar with BSS & Crown products. I say this because the facilities I've seen them in tend to use Screen Array (OK, sometimes Meyer equivalent) in their larger spaces, and when the 7-series was launched they started be swapped in to their supporting smaller rooms. If someone can install a 4-way Screen Array, a 2-way single box install shouldn't cause them too much trouble.It is a pure Professional product, IMHO.
This is a good point, I've often seen them run in single wire mode. Maybe that's what everyone's contacts at Harman were telling them to do back when these things were new. And yeah, aside from simplifying installation, it makes obvious sense that if maximum headroom is needed (and in pro audio, it always is...) then a single 1000w amp is clearly more powerful than 2x500w (if we ignore those weird & wonderful power sharing amp designs of courseand explicitly expressed a preference to me and many others around that time for a stronger amp channel in single amp mode over two channels in biamp mode.
Edit: this is the label on the speaker. It clearly says only a specified Harman amp and a signal processor should be used. Not any amplifier.Sure they did. You can use 70Xi with any amplifier, provided a BSS processor or JBL Intonato is upstream to complete the crossover. That option was available from launch (not Intonato, which came later, but with BSS).
I am not sure what "ran" is referring to, nor what "it had was running" is back-referencing? Thanks!Another problem is the loud ran in the Crown amp. During setup, it seemed to shut off after being powered on. Alas, once testing was done, I realized it had was running (I could not hear due to my hearing protection). This may have impacted the measurements a bit.