JBL 4367 review by Erin

[fredoamigo]

Strangely enough, some of you find and admit that putting 6 or 8 thousand dollars in a studio monitor or even much more for some sota speakers not much bigger is a normal thing...not me
I listened for a long time to some of them (8C/Kii) and although they are excellent, they are still small boxes limited in SPL and the listening format is not at all the same. It's as if you went from your home with your 55" oled flat screen to a cinema with speakers like the 4367. (I exaggerate hardly) to finish and it is for me the essenciel, they are all very far from having the lightning dynamics of 4367.

On the other hand, yes like all the speakers the 4367 make compromises we saw here in particular on the off-axis response. But if one day you listen to them, do not expect to listen to the same thing as another speaker that also has a good spinorama like revel or this type of speakers.

Among the best (closer to what I think of them) description I've read about the 4367 there is this one. of GREG TIMBER.

"The 4367 is a good system for those who like the large Monitor format. It measures well, sounds detailed and musical but is lean in the bottom octave as are all of the post 1985 or so "Japan" product. The speed and excess excursion capacity of these systems makes them good candidates for EQ, or for the proper use of a subwoofer, say below 40 Hz. They do have a "live music" sound that is most difficult to achieve purely with direct radiators. If you are looking for an Audiophile loudspeaker with 3-dimensional imaging, a warm mellow midrange and no dynamics at all, look elsewhere. Without using the words Distilled Water you might look at another Harman brand if you are seeking elegant, luscious elevator music."""http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?37662-JBL-4367-first-listen/page6

 

[fineMen]

But if one day you listen to them, do not expect to listen to the same thing as another speaker ...

It is not some mystery with specific technical means, e/g "horn", but the combination of directivity and headroom.

... I guesstimate that the CTC spacing is around 500 to 520mm which is just over 1 wavelength at 700Hz. 0.7 wavelength s...

Depends strongly on the actual crossover design. Of course my own example is driven by DSP. Only as an aftermath, a three-way would allow to refine the vertical a bit further.

 

[Mart68]

I had a demo of the predecessor the 4365. I thought they were superb. If I was discontented with what I already have I would certainly have bought them.

I still think about buying them every time I see them mentioned and then have to talk myself out of it. It helps that it's so hard to buy JBL in the UK (well proper JBL anyway).

I appreciate that there are technically better solutions for the same or less money, but it's not so easy to rationalise like that once you've heard them.

 

[Zvu]

.....
You guys think the 4367 is (too) expensive? In the domestic arena I don't think it is really, especially with shipping costs of a pair of large boxes from factory to distributor(s) and there to dealer - logistics have gone through the roof internationally I gather. I'd honestly say the price is still reasonable but each to your own...

For 16.000$ you can buy JBL 4367 or a John Deere compact tractor (not that i need any one of the two, just sayin' and comparing).

1025R Tractor | Sub-Compact Tractors | John Deere US

1 Family Sub-Compact Tractors, 1 Family 1025R

www.deere.com

Now imagine subcontractors, licences, safety issues and permits you have to pay to be able to sell it, compared to pair of loudspeakers. Mechanisms, ton of moving parts with tolerances far lower than in a loudspeaker. Manual labor plus machinery you need to have to be able to fabricate it.

Methinks loudspeakers are a tiny winy bit overpriced. Just a litle bit

 

[fineMen]

... there are technically better solutions for the same or less money, ...

It is a dedicated up-market product. For professional users the cost of the purchase isn't the only consideration, but usability, reliability, support etc have to be payed also. Compared to the cost of the personnel, the rent, or even the loss of a single contract etc., the 17k$ is little and spread out over a long period of time, say a decade or so. Investment, rather than hobby.

Interestingly other than in terms of "ummph" the 15" bass driver doesn't quite compete well with older models ;-) The (very) old 2226 is cleaner.

This alone justifies a DIY build which can be had for less than a tenth. If the scientifically approved know how is at hand, of course--no mysteries left

 

[iMickey503]

 

[Bjorn]

Great review. I'm interested in these large format compression drivers/horn combinations that can crossover so low. Klipsch K402 using 1.5" or 2" exit compression driver also had that effortless, huge dynamic sound when played at any volume level. This was using hardware DSP for the crossover, they remain to this day the speakers that have impressed me more than all these smaller bookshelf sized DSP speakers for pure fidelity where size/aesthetics/cost aren't an issue.

You can read about a comparison I did between a large horn vs a smaller JBL waveguide (both using large format compression drivers) in this link:

One moment, please...

Used to have a Klipsch K402 for reference before by the way. On the right side in the picture below.

 

[Schollaudio]

I'm interested in looking at the response at different tweeter heights and also a room response measurement, to see if this gets rid of the small directivity issue at the crossover frequency.
As it's been measured by Harman this speaker seems to have some BBC dip, expect that it's at a perceptually wrong range.
Maybe it should have been designed a 3-way.

JBL does have a great mid the 2169h but three ways are not such an easy solution. Good luck matching the distortion, breakup phase, off access and everything else. Loudspeakers are a hard mistress to tame. A well implemented 15" two way may not be perfect but is a surprisingly good design. Although the JBL 5322 are very good too.

 

[hvbias]

Strangely enough, some of you find and admit that putting 6 or 8 thousand dollars in a studio monitor or even much more for some sota speakers not much bigger is a normal thing...not me
I listened for a long time to some of them (8C/Kii) and although they are excellent, they are still small boxes limited in SPL and the listening format is not at all the same. It's as if you went from your home with your 55" oled flat screen to a cinema with speakers like the 4367. (I exaggerate hardly) to finish and it is for me the essenciel, they are all very far from having the lightning dynamics of 4367.

On the other hand, yes like all the speakers the 4367 make compromises we saw here in particular on the off-axis response. But if one day you listen to them, do not expect to listen to the same thing as another speaker that also has a good spinorama like revel or this type of speakers.

Among the best (closer to what I think of them) description I've read about the 4367 there is this one. of GREG TIMBER.

"The 4367 is a good system for those who like the large Monitor format. It measures well, sounds detailed and musical but is lean in the bottom octave as are all of the post 1985 or so "Japan" product. The speed and excess excursion capacity of these systems makes them good candidates for EQ, or for the proper use of a subwoofer, say below 40 Hz. They do have a "live music" sound that is most difficult to achieve purely with direct radiators. If you are looking for an Audiophile loudspeaker with 3-dimensional imaging, a warm mellow midrange and no dynamics at all, look elsewhere. Without using the words Distilled Water you might look at another Harman brand if you are seeking elegant, luscious elevator music."""http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?37662-JBL-4367-first-listen/page6

Very good analogy with large TVs vs projectors. I pored over TV size to seating distance charts for hours when I was initially moving from a small CRT Trinitron to plasma, of course I was limited by budget back then as well so I was more than happy to follow the objective advice of what the charts showed

I followed them for my next generation plasma as well. I never made the transition to OLED as by then we'd already bought at an RS500 and at 120" it was far more immersive than any of those seating distance:TV size "objective" charts would have you believe. There was simply absolutely no comparison; the projector screen was in a whole different realm of immersive. And we don't just watch action/high budget films, the last one we watched was El Sur, just as immersive on the projector.

Another trend that is taking off with gaming monitors is the move towards ultrawide, that let you see more of the picture on the periphery of your vision to increase immersion.

I've been enjoying downloading true open matte films (not fake cropped open matte that only opens up the vertical picture but crops the horizontal) and these have been highly enjoyable as well in terms of immersion. I'll grant some artistic license to great films like The Lighthouse that was in 4:3, but otherwise I strongly think DPs should be using true open matte.

Amir even mentioned it in the review of one of the Genelecs (8361a?) about the "small sound" compared to Revel Salon 2. People were saying they make up for this by utilizing multichannel, but this is of little interest to me given the very small amount of music available in that format.

 

[hvbias]

You can read about a comparison I did between a large horn vs a smaller JBL waveguide (both using large format compression drivers) in this link:

One moment, please...

Used to have a Klipsch K402 for reference before by the way. On the right side in the picture below.
View attachment 198459

I agree with what you've written. That absence of restriction of space in the K402, no "small sound" and feeling of unlimited soundstage, these were the only speakers that have impressed me for full tilt high dynamic range classical music. It is not uncommon to have DR measurements of 14-18 in well recorded/mastered symphony music.

One of the true tests that really startled me was when the owner played some Blu-ray and a person slammed a car door. We all know what this sounds like in real life. I have never heard a speaker reproduce it like that. It didn't sound like a speaker playing back a car door being closed, it just sounded like someone was actually closing a car door.

 

[Pio]

I was so excited for this review. I've been using the 4367's for 3 years now and after decades of "looking for something better", I lost the upgrade bug as I couldn't be happier with these JBLs. I don't mind the old school look, but I have a dedicated room... If Harman could pack this performance in a better looking package, they would sell em for $25k or more.. Kudos to Erin and the gent that drove so far to make this happen.

 

[gnarly]

You guys think the 4367 is (too) expensive?

Yes, I do...sadly so.

I've become pretty good at DIY speakers, and feel confident given about a $2250 budget, I could build clones.
(Or build the same box and horn with better drivers for another $750.)

Mine would measure better too, as I'd use active roll-my-own processing ...(already owned, along with amps).

Admittedly, such DIY capability is far out of reach for most, but it does illustrate markup....(excessive markup imho)

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

Yes, I do...sadly so.

I've become pretty good at DIY speakers, and feel confident given about a $2250 budget, I could build clones.

Yes, I honestly believe you could... but you can't make a living from that!

it does illustrate markup....(excessive markup imho)

Did you ever try to run a company without decent markup?
Edit: Does JBL make excessive or decent/normal markup from 4367? If it sells well, probably the markup is not excessive.

 

[peanuts]

Erin needs to work on his numbers. a 6inch woofer does not beam above1khz, nor does a 15inch beam above 400hz. multiply that by 2.

 

[Slayer]

Totally different question is whether JBL makes excessive or decent/normal markup from 4367. If it sells well, probably the markup is not excessive.

I would say excessive markup. Why? Because when it's labeled as home hifi it seems easier to get away with. Take a look at some of their offerings labeled as cinema/professional loudspeakers.
The 47722n is a fine example, incredible value (less than $3k a pair). The package may not be as elegant looking as the 4367, but sounds just as or almost as good. Even if you mod the 4722n, you're still under $4k. Put those up against the 4367 and I would almost be willing to bet, in listening test, the user would choose the 4722n.
It's much easier to charge higher prices for something that is prettier to look at, even though it may be no better than a plain old black box.

 

[gnarly]

Yes, I honestly believe you could... but you can't make a living from that!

Did you ever try to run a company without decent markup?
Totally different question is whether JBL makes excessive or decent/normal markup from 4367. If it sells well, probably the markup is not excessive.

Yep, i've run businesses ranging from loss-leading pricing to gain market share....to egregious pricing of captive customers.
(No longer happy with myself for having done the egregious part.)

And i don't really believe anymore, in fully pricing to "what the market will bear"...even if it sells well...
You know the old saying, "what goes around, comes around"....
Guess i'm getting old and soft hearted..... Lol

But back to the 4367....
The $2250 budget i made for clones is buying the JBL components at retail....which of course includes decent (to JBL and distributors) markup.
What you bet, it costs JBL closer to $1000 a pair in direct costs?
I well understand all the myriad indirect corporate, marketing, and distribution costs....but still.... $16k ?....hell no.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

I would say excessive markup. ...
The 47722n is a fine example, incredible value (less than $3k a pair). The package may not be as elegant looking as the 4367, but sounds just as or almost as good.

I concur the 4722N is incredible value, but not only WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) is -10, its HANF (Husband Acceptance Factor) is -9.
Edit: HAF, not HUN.

 

[Zvu]

I concur the 4722N is incredible value, but not only WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) is -10, its HAN (Husband Acceptance Factor) is -9.

I guess you meant HAF ?

I somehow always thought that in gay marriage those things get easier. You live and learn.

Well, talk to your husband then. Allow him to see the benefits of cool hifi.

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

But back to the 4367....
The $2250 budget i made for clones is buying the JBL components at retail....which of course includes decent (to JBL and distributors) markup.
What you bet, it costs JBL closer to $1000 a pair in direct costs?
I well understand all the myriad indirect corporate, marketing, and distribution costs....but still.... $16k ?....hell no.

You forget to include the cost of the horn (which you can not buy from JBL!), the cost of the R&D of that horn and the cost of the R&D of the crossover.
Yes, you can use other horn, design your own crossover for the cost of peanuts... so, why you are not doing that? It seems so easy to wipe the floor with JBL 4367, to dominate the market with your clone and to earn big money even with your not excessive markup...

To beat the JBL 4367 you have to be much cheaper, with good marketing, good distribution network, good ... everything - which cost big, big money! So, not so easy as someone might think.
Acid test: is there any legit company to sell the JBL 4367 "clone", capable of surviving several years on the market? I don't think so.

 

[anmpr1]

May I suggest:

What is it with YT promos? Do they require the presenter to stand there with a goofy moronic look on his face, mouth wide open like a bug-man, acting like he's just been shocked with a cattle prod? I hope Amir never goes that route with his videos.