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JBL 4367 review by Erin

Sal1950

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So I skipped that part and looked at the measurements.
Conclusion of JA: —it offers textbook measured performance.—
I got my copy in the mail this Sat and have been mulling over what to post here since then.
I've read some ridiculous subjective reviews at Stereophile but I think the JBL 4367 penned by newbie Alex Halberstadt is just about the worst one yet. Where did they find this guy? I won't waste my time detailing it but if our members want to read an exercise in BS vomiting this is a great one to learn from. :facepalm:
At least the fact that the 4367 is a world class loudspeaker did eventually almost come through.
 

More Dynamics Please

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Reading the review on stereophile:
Yet, after about 200 hours of play, the 4367s had improved dramatically, and after 300 they began to sound great. I later learned that the pair I received had only a few hours on them. Mystery solved. :facepalm:

So I skipped that part and looked at the measurements.
Conclusion of JA: —it offers textbook measured performance.—
Stereophile will break in after reading for several hundred hours, improve dramatically and begin sounding great.
 

Kvalsvoll

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Adding a more modern form of data visualisation as an addition to his standard set would be nice, but that's all. Given the large body of measurements he's built up over more than 30 years it's far more important to maintain consistency. This is especially true given the numerous ways in which such measurements can be confounded, and I'd have thought this point would be rather obvious.

As others develop similar bodies of results using more modern techniques there will, hopefully, be sufficient overlap in the data sets to allow meaningful comparisons. But this critically depends on each body of measurements being conducted in a consistent manner rather than jumping around.
Consistency is good, but eventually it will be necessary to make changes, as new methods for both measurements and presentation evolves.

It does not need to be very fancy, the graphs in post #234 is a good visualization of the radiated sound from a speaker.

The problem is the measurement, it is difficult to achieve sufficient accuracy for off-axis data. While on-axis above around 500-1k is fairly easy to do, a full-range set with off-axis is not possible to do without using more complex set-ups. You really need Klippel or outdoor or anechoic room. Going down in frequency is a problem, then off-axis is even more diffictult, as the level of reflected energy contaminating the intended measured signal increases. I have speakers here now where level is down more than -20dB for far off-axis angles, and this is not easy to measure properly in a quick set-up. For a review, this may not be possible within reasonable effort.
 

Absolute

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Thank you! Here they look rather similar in their rising trend off-axis, but with different peaking points. 4367 looks better behaved far off-axis than it does up to 40 degrees while M2 is constant in its rising trend from 700-2200 hz all the way out.

Looks to me like the M2 waveguide is best crossed over at around 1800 hz dispersion wise. Very smooth and well behaved from there.

I think that both of these speakers are falling between the chairs because M2 isn't constant enough to be considered a real constant directivity product and the 4367 doesn't really hit the ball out of the park when aiming for the linear increasing directivity due to the rising trend off-axis between 700-3000 hz region.

Estimated in-room response looks much better with the 4367 than the horizontal dispersion alone implies, though.
Makes me believe that they were aiming for that over at the Harman shop.

Fascinating stuff!
 

fluid

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Tom C

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Interesting looking, but I would think that by the time you get it to USA, it’s not a bunch cheaper.
 

fredoamigo

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The other problem with speakers of a certain price but with a lack of Notoriety, fame, reputation, renown ... is that if one day you want to resell them for one reason or another, you will have a lot of trouble to recover some marbles ...
 

fluid

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Interesting looking, but I would think that by the time you get it to USA, it’s not a bunch cheaper.
Exchange rates and shipping can make or break the value depending on where you live. A pair of 4367 in Australia retail for just under $30K AUD so currently their value is nearly doubly atrocious here.
 

Newman

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That there are always some differences (and it is normal) between the measurements of the time which come from the anechoic chamber harman and that of a Klippel NFS...so here I prefer the "on axis" of the klippel
So you prefer an amateur boy with a professional toy, used to measure one sample of a variable product, over professional men with their choice of numerous professional tools, including the above boy’s pro toy and numerous others, used to measure a statistically significant sample of same product?

Then I question your judgement in this particular regard.
 

abdo123

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So you prefer an amateur boy with a professional toy, used to measure one sample of a variable product, over professional men with their choice of numerous professional tools, including the above boy’s pro toy and numerous others, used to measure a statistically significant sample of same product?

Then I question your judgement in this particular regard.
Well if that professional toy is a robot that automates the whole measurement process and inherently makes the measurements as close to perfection as we possibly can then yeah i trust 'the amateurish boy' more.

Also be careful with that sort of language, you're not going to make a lot of friends here.
 

fredoamigo

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So you prefer an amateur boy with a professional toy, used to measure one sample of a variable product, over professional men with their choice of numerous professional tools, including the above boy’s pro toy and numerous others, used to measure a statistically significant sample of same product?

Then I question your judgement in this particular regard.
You are misinterpreting or maybe I am formulating it wrong?
For this particular case I prefer the Klippel measurements and in general I prefer Klippel.
what emanates from a professional or an informed amateur has no importance ..
 

Newman

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15" is there to provide high sensitivity. Nothing special about 15" and a horn.

Also, i'm not sure there are no competitors. JTR Noesis 212RT is a three way passive loudspeaker priced at 5600$ a pair.
First thing that came to mind. Yes the JBL is far overpriced for performance delivered. Should not have been debated as long (and has haughtily) as it was.
 

Mart68

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First thing that came to mind. Yes the JBL is far overpriced for performance delivered.
In absolute terms yes but at the show I heard them at they were the cheapest loudspeaker on demo and they were so much better than of all the others it wasn't funny. So compared to what you could waste your money on...
 

fredoamigo

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First thing that came to mind. Yes the JBL is far overpriced for performance delivered. Should not have been debated as long (and has haughtily) as it was.
Yes, especially since ""You only throw stones at the tree that bears fruit" (Creole proverb)
In any case thank you for your science, and to tell us if a debate can take place or not, next time we will be less "haughty" and we will wait that you decree the beginning and the end of the debate ... promised! ;)

Are you always so smug ?
 
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Newman

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I’m not smug, I’m descriptive.
Quotes:-
“Some members claimed the JBL 4367 is exuberantly expensive, but I proved that is not the case - because there is no other company which offers comparable loudspeaker at lower price.”
“But...Have you ever seen how they (PA speakers) look??? Would you ever, and I mean EVER, place such ugliness in your living room?”
“where are the competitors, with equal sound quality (measurements), equally good/acceptable looking (for home use) and with much lower price? Well?”
“So, still there is no competitor with lower cost, comparable measurements and good/ acceptable/ tolerable visual appearance. Just look at the RCF 945-A with those handles...placing such a pair of pro boxes would be coyote-ugly in a living room would be double-coyote-ugly.”
“there are universally accepted aesthetic standards and some lines are not meant to be crossed...If (not), then much of the (text)books (artbooks?) from academies of art and design should be thrown away through the windows.”
“My eyes are hurt by this, sorry. And this is coming from a man who is in the pro loudspeaker business - designing, building, selling and renting big pro loudspeakers. I will have nightmares tonight...”
“My post was about undeniable truth that there are universally accepted aesthetic standards.”
”Oh really? (Posts supermodel pic and implies it must be liked by everyone)”
“JBL 4367 (has) no competitors…with the same qualities, but at lower cost.”

….and all the above haughtiness and mockery came crashing down when the JTR was mentioned and he had to admit it may be equal or better at a far, far lower price.

Why didn’t you throw your accusations at the one who actually was haughty, mocking, and overconfident? Perhaps you were too busy being on his ‘side’ re the price of this speaker, to forgive all the above? Then go on the attack as soon as someone accurately describes the above words? Come on.
 

gnarly

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Hey guys, may i make an apology to the this thread's readers ....
I feel i got haughty in pushback to many of the quotes just posted.
I overstated the simplicity, the ease of building such a fine speaker, and the improvements i think may be on the table.
My bad....don't mean to go in to places like that...
 

fredoamigo

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I’m not smug, I’m descriptive.
Quotes:-
“Some members claimed the JBL 4367 is exuberantly expensive, but I proved that is not the case - because there is no other company which offers comparable loudspeaker at lower price.”
“But...Have you ever seen how they (PA speakers) look??? Would you ever, and I mean EVER, place such ugliness in your living room?”
“where are the competitors, with equal sound quality (measurements), equally good/acceptable looking (for home use) and with much lower price? Well?”
“So, still there is no competitor with lower cost, comparable measurements and good/ acceptable/ tolerable visual appearance. Just look at the RCF 945-A with those handles...placing such a pair of pro boxes would be coyote-ugly in a living room would be double-coyote-ugly.”
“there are universally accepted aesthetic standards and some lines are not meant to be crossed...If (not), then much of the (text)books (artbooks?) from academies of art and design should be thrown away through the windows.”
“My eyes are hurt by this, sorry. And this is coming from a man who is in the pro loudspeaker business - designing, building, selling and renting big pro loudspeakers. I will have nightmares tonight...”
“My post was about undeniable truth that there are universally accepted aesthetic standards.”
”Oh really? (Posts supermodel pic and implies it must be liked by everyone)”
“JBL 4367 (has) no competitors…with the same qualities, but at lower cost.”

….and all the above haughtiness and mockery came crashing down when the JTR was mentioned and he had to admit it may be equal or better at a far, far lower price.

Why didn’t you throw your accusations at the one who actually was haughty, mocking, and overconfident? Perhaps you were too busy being on his ‘side’ re the price of this speaker, to forgive all the above? Then go on the attack as soon as someone accurately describes the above words? Come on.
Well ... you don't like them we had understood !but finally a beginning of premise of argumentation !:)
As you certainly know this site is called ASR (audio science review) and as far as I know it is not yet called ADR (Audio design review) yes I find these loudspeakers very beautiful but it is subjective like all that relates to the esthetics for the price, yes it is expensive but once again, what can be very expensive for you is undoubtedly averagely for certain and not at all for others... that said, we are still very far from certain audiophile swindles which moreover measure badly
 
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