JBL 4349 Review (Studio Monitor Speaker)

[PaulD]

@Sancus beat me to the E. Power Biggs recommendation. He is hard to go past.

Organ music, and Baroque organ in particular, has a lot of variation from one performance to another. Every organ is different. For all useful purposes no two pipe organs are the same. The are individually commissioned and designed for the space they will be installed. So much so that separating the organ from the building isn't really possible. The acoustic space the organ plays in is a critical part of the organ's sound. Every organ built is voiced in-situ (every single pipe being adjusted for its tonal character and balance once installed in place.) No two organs have the same set of stops or voicings, and baroque music leaves a considerable amount of interpretation to the organist, with much of the ornamentation only implied. So you can and will find a quite considerable range of interpretations and sonic realisations.

And that piece by Bach was written to test organs - it makes sense when you hear it in that context; for example testing the bellows by holding down a lot of low notes while playing some high notes, and the same figure played in all registers to hear how well (or not) the organ articulates across the range of the instrument and stops, and so on. I do not have a reference for this, but I do remember one of my early music teachers telling me about it a couple of decades ago. Apparently J.S. Bach would often enough be asked to go and try out an organ, so he wrote a piece to help.

 

[sarumbear]

Apparently J.S. Bach would often enough be asked to go and try out an organ, so he wrote a piece to help.

The original audiophile. He brings his own music with him to a Hi-Fi meet-up

 

[beaRA]

I do this using 76dB @ 1m as the reference. 86dB, 96dB and (sometimes) 102dB. You can see this in my more recent reviews:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kali-in-5-studio-monitor-review.22487/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/focal-twin6-be-studio-monitor-review.22254/

But those are powered speakers which often have limiters built in. So, here is an example from an upcoming re-review of the Klipsch Heresy IV I tested in November last year. Sneak peak for you guys!

View attachment 125813

Quick question for clarification: how are the levels determined for this test? Is it referenced to 76dB/1m at a certain frequency or range? Or is it just a +10dB increase in input and then a -10dB offset at every frequency before subtracting the 76dB/1m curve?

BTW, this compression test is an excellent value add for your reviews that I don't see offered much anywhere else. Thank you for that!

 

[hardisj]

Quick question for clarification: how are the levels determined for this test? Is it referenced to 76dB/1m at a certain frequency or range?

I provide this information in the bottom right of the graphic.

 

[tuga]

It would be interesting to see the IMD performance of this speaker.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

We can hope for more reviews of more dynamic speakers to see if there is similar correlation between objective measurements and subjective listening impressions. The comment in the listening test comparing the 4349 to the Salon2 that seems to sum it up is "super pleasurable but less refined." Maybe we can classify more dynamic speakers with imperfect measurements as guilty pleasures.

 

[beaRA]

I provide this information in the bottom right of the graphic.

Dang it! I checked the title and the prose in your review around the chart, but missed the fine print.

 

[Rottmannash]

I think it well worth doing a thermal compression study.
One of the reasons I don't even look at the "score" from any of the speaker tests, but do study the individual measurements, is that every time I have checked out speakers over the last 50 years the big thing that stands out to me when making comparisons using the sort of music I enjoy, be it rock music or big orchestral pieces, has been how the speakers handle dynamics.

The first time I came across this was probably over 40 years ago when the rave reviews of the Spendor BC1 here in the UK convinced me I should buy some.
I found my local dealer and arranged a demo, they were astonishingly realistic on voice and string quartet but on the sort of music I listen to a lot they sounded much worse than the 3-way speakers I already owned.
The dealer connected a 3-way with the same size cabinet at the BC1 and it was so much better on the sort of music I listen to at home I laughed out loud.
This was a level matched but not blind test. I appreciate that level matching speakers is inherently inexact but the difference was spectacularly obvious. It was the genesis of my mistrust of magazine reviews.

I have yet to find a 2-way speaker that is any use for my type of listening, even with a sub crossed over at 80Hz. 2 subs crossed over at 220Hz may not be as hopeless but I have no experience.

What speakers do you listen to at home?

 

[changer]

About thermal compression: When I play my high efficiency speakers (FaitalPro 12PR320 woofer, rated between 94-97 dBefficiency), within the range that is normally defined as frequency response—my speakers reach -10db at 25 Hz—and at levels which are compatible with the fact that my appartment is located in an old city building from the 1920 with little acoustic insulation protecting the neighbors against noise, my power levels should be ridiculously low. As would be the case with these JBL speakers! According to WinISD, to reach 70 dB at my listening position 2.5 meters away, despite the fact they are heavily assisted by an PEQ at the bottom end, amplifier apparent load states 0.255 VA. How much heat issues do you get from that? If youn listen really loud, say 86 dB after BSC, its 9.7 Watts. I cannot, my ears would be bleeding but maybe in your atrium there is so much space. Still, very little energy heating up the voice coil, not to speak about the magnet.

 

[DualTriode]

Hello All,

Does anyone else appreciate the Irony here?

If you put the measurements of this speaker into the format of a headphone review this speaker would be the gold standard. Look at how the measurements approach the idealized transfer function.

If we could get headphone measurements to match the idealized Harman transfer function this closely we would be dancing in the streets.

If we measure headphones in an effort to achieve the targeted listening experience of sitting in the sweet spot in a standard listening room why do we not put Mister HATS or Mister 45CA in the seat in the sweat spot in the listening room to perform speaker testing?

I have the impression that anechoic or robot time gated testing in the garage might be good for R&D purposes. On the other hand that moderate dip in the Frequency Response may get swallowed and lost in all the real time reflections of the listening room. That dip in the FR does not matter so much or seam so important when you are sitting on the couch.

Thanks DT

 

[Robbo99999]

Hello All,

Does anyone else appreciate the Irony here?

If you put the measurements of this speaker into the format of a headphone review this speaker would be the gold standard. Look at how the measurements approach the idealized transfer function.

If we could get headphone measurements to match the idealized Harman transfer function this closely we would be dancing in the streets.

If we measure headphones in an effort to achieve the targeted listening experience of sitting in the sweet spot in a standard listening room why do we not put Mister HATS or Mister 45CA in the seat in the sweat spot in the listening room to perform speaker testing?

I have the impression that anechoic or robot time gated testing in the garage might be good for R&D purposes. On the other hand that moderate dip in the Frequency Response may get swallowed and lost in all the real time reflections of the listening room. That dip in the FR does not matter so much or seam so important when you are sitting on the couch.

Thanks DT

(It's pretty far removed from the headphone Harman Curve Target, the only slight similarity is the rise from 1.5kHz, and even that rise is not big enough, plus everything else is wrong on both sides of that point re Headphone Harman Curve Target.....I mean I know you're joking, but thought I'd point it out).

 

[youngho]

We can hope for more reviews of more dynamic speakers to see if there is similar correlation between objective measurements and subjective listening impressions. The comment in the listening test comparing the 4349 to the Salon2 that seems to sum it up is "super pleasurable but less refined." Maybe we can classify more dynamic speakers with imperfect measurements as guilty pleasures.

I have posted this before, but consider the following:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...review-measurements.14310/page-17#post-442549

 

[Frank Dernie]

What speakers do you listen to at home?

Mainly Goldmund Epilog 1&2 and Tune Audio Anima several hours per day.
I have ProAc Studio EBS in my study and Yamaha NS1000M in my bedroom which get far less use. I am bad at selling stuff and bought my first stuff 53 years ago. I have been using almost exclusively 3-way speakers since 1971 only having small 2-ways in my office if I was working late..

 

[Frank Dernie]

Frank, BC1's can 'do' rock, but only in a small room and with levels taken into account

It was the high level I often listen at that they couldn't cope with at Paul Green's in Bath. I probably played Frank Zappa and Mahler!
The Nightingale NM point 5 which had that popular mid unit Peerless K040-MRF also fitted to the Gale GS 401 (and with a 1" dome tweeter and 8" bass unit) was much, much more to my taste and I ended up buying them! They were a small version of the NM1 which had a bigger cabinet and KEF B139 bass unit.
Just put the Halleluwah live recording from 1972 on...

 

[DualTriode]

(It's pretty far removed from the headphone Harman Curve Target, the only slight similarity is the rise from 1.5kHz, and even that rise is not big enough, plus everything else is wrong on both sides of that point re Headphone Harman Curve Target.....I mean I know you're joking, but thought I'd point it out).

Hello,

The Harman Headphone curve is a standardized target transfer function for headphones. The downward sloping 1dB per octave line is a separate target transfer function for speakers. Both target transfer functions mostly developed by Harman.

This speaker test plots are much closer to the downward sloping 1dB per octave speaker target transfer function than 90+% of headphones tested dream of getting near the target headphone transfer function.

No Joke! This speaker tests much closer to the idealized speaker transfer function than all or most headphones test compared to the idealized Harman Curve. Not so confusing after all.

Thanks DT

 

[Robbo99999]

Hello,

The Harman Headphone curve is a standardized target transfer function for headphones. The downward sloping 1dB per octave line is a separate target transfer function for speakers. Both target transfer functions mostly developed by Harman.

This speaker test plots are much closer to the downward sloping 1dB per octave speaker target transfer function than 90+% of headphones tested dream of getting near the target headphone transfer function.

No Joke! This speaker tests much closer to the idealized speaker transfer function than all or most headphones test compared to the idealized Harman Curve. Not so confusing after all.

Thanks DT

Yes, I'm very familiar with the Harman Curve for speakers & also the Harman Curve for headphones. No, it's not close to the Harman headphone curve, I've not plotted it but I've referenced a few data points on the frequency response and it's only similar in the elements I mentioned in my last post. Anyway, useless discussion of no meaning in reference to this speaker.....just I didn't want people to be misinformed, but they're not taking you seriously on it because you were joking, so it doesn't matter!

 

[Frank Dernie]

I have seen loads of comments over the years from the first watt matters most and we don't use as much power as we think (Pass et all the SET lovers) and you need far more power than you realise (Sanders) but using an amp with a calibrated power meter shows far, far more power being used than I would have ever guessed in this 6 year old Harbeth published video I only saw recently. It is also amazing how much less a bit of chamber music used.
I suspect there is a clue to Amir's enjoyment of these in here.

 

[DualTriode]

Yes, I'm very familiar with the Harman Curve for speakers & also the Harman Curve for headphones. No, it's not close to the Harman headphone curve, I've not plotted it but I've referenced a few data points on the frequency response and it's only similar in the elements I mentioned in my last post. Anyway, useless discussion of no meaning in reference to this speaker.....just I didn't want people to be misinformed, but they're not taking you seriously on it because you were joking, so it doesn't matter!

Still confused?

Two separate idealized transfer functions; one for Headphones and the other for Speakers. Never did I say they were the same other than both being idealized standards.

This speaker tests much closer to the idealized speaker transfer function than most or all headphones approach the standard Headphone transfer function.

I think it is odd that speakers are judged more harshly and held to a higher objective standard.

Thanks DT

 

[FrantzM]

About thermal compression: When I play my high efficiency speakers (FaitalPro 12PR320 woofer, rated between 94-97 dBefficiency), within the range that is normally defined as frequency response—my speakers reach -10db at 25 Hz—and at levels which are compatible with the fact that my appartment is located in an old city building from the 1920 with little acoustic insulation protecting the neighbors against noise, my power levels should be ridiculously low. As would be the case with these JBL speakers! According to WinISD, to reach 70 dB at my listening position 2.5 meters away, despite the fact they are heavily assisted by an PEQ at the bottom end, amplifier apparent load states 0.255 VA. How much heat issues do you get from that? If youn listen really loud, say 86 dB after BSC, its 9.7 Watts. I cannot, my ears would be bleeding but maybe in your atrium there is so much space. Still, very little energy heating up the voice coil, not to speak about the magnet.

Respecting your point of view.
With my system based on an AVR and JBL LSR 308, I have found myself able to listen to music when it is quiet (ambient noise at 30~40 dB) at low volume, averaging 75 dB and enjoying it immensely. I would point out however, that in real life in most cities on the planet, one is subjected constantly to levels above 85 dB... even in a car ... In a concert hall such levels are routinely surpassed, even in chamber music or jazz in a club with non-amplified instruments ...I am thus certain that 85 dB is not a level at which anybody's ears "bleed".

 

[changer]

I will check my claims with REW in the next days, maybe my measurement methods were wrong. But until now, everything surpassing 70 dB at my listening position was loud enough to get me into trouble if I was always playing this high. My "listening" room is 4.5 x 5.5 meters and the unfinished, in-development speaker looks like this, while the frequency response of the still not dampened box currently looks like this. All very much provisional, but total levels I was confident to have an idea what this means. With a high efficiency speaker 97 dB/1w/1m (woofer!, compression driver attenuated 15 dB), power levels are very low! Now I don't now how this plays out with a silky Revel ceramic woofer, lot of Mms, how much power they need to play at my listening levels. Maybe they are glowing? The first question is realistic listening levels I assume. There is a thread around here on this topic, often it is quite low.