JBL 4319 Studio Monitor Review

[wwenze]

When you consider that most music was mixed on monitors that were far from flat, probably up through the 80s, this might explain why I find modern speakers so unsatisfactory for listening to older rock music.

It's inevitable that the frequency response curve will be reflected in an inverse pattern in the mix, even if faintly. Played back on flat monitors, it just sounds weird.

Because most mixers learn to make mixes that "translate" well, the problem isn't as bad as you might think. In practice, this means that as a mixer, you absolutely cannot rely on just making the mix sound good on your monitors.

If the general thrust of this line of thinking holds true, it would mean that finding a speaker more complementary to a "vintage" mix would be more "hit or miss." This is what I do find.

That almost convinced me to buy an NS10

 

[Steph-Hifi]

The Midrange looks like a typical Revel Speaker part, somebody has any information on it ?

 

[Wombat]

That almost convinced me to buy an NS10

NS 10 resale values show disdain for the critics.

 

[Pio2001]

Did you check that the mid and high frequency settings were actually working ?
My uncle has got some 40 years old Yamaha NS-344 with similar settings, and the controls have been broken for years because of age. The contact is lost, and the tweeter is silent.
What if the design was different here, and the treble response was remaining at the maximum level when the control doesn't work anymore ?

 

[anmpr1]

I can't help but wonder what these JBL 4319 would be like if listened to for 2-5 days and then go back to the usual standards for speakers.

I think that's the entire phenomenon of 'break in'. After a while your ear/brain gets used to a particular sound, absorbs and integrates it into something coherent. That explains why you can go from listening to a box speaker you think is great, move to an electrostatic which sounds completely different, concluding that panels are the best way, then migrate to something else and wonder how you lived without that kind of sound.

West Coast sound vs. East Coast sound? The whole control monitor thing is interesting because it really shows that what JBL targeted in the 70/80’s was “wrong” from what we know about “ideal music”.

I know you are using 'quotes' around your terms, and so I reply with that in mind. I don't think it was deliberately 'wrong', just a sign of the times. We have to judge it within the era's hsitorical context. During the late '60s through mid '70s you didn't get today's full range coherency with any mass market bookshelf type speaker. Even exotics like the Quad had major problems (didn't play loud, no bass, beamy highs).

What you got at the hi-fi store was either 'polite' (some would say muffled and lifeless)--think AR or KLH, or immediate and forward sounding (JBL). For something completely different you had the Bose 'wall of sound' feel. And then a ton of lesser speakers that tended to mimick one or another of the former trio. A few companies (such as Rectilinear) attempted to offer a more 'natural' full-range sound, but didn't get very far in the marketplace.

Also, (lack of) amplifier power was a big issue back then. In the mass market, 25 or 30 watts per channel was about average. Maybe 40. A 60 watt per channel amp was considered big. If you wanted more you went pro (Crown DC-300) or waited until guys like Bob Carver showed up (and Phase Linear amps were not exactly inexpensive). Therefore, JBL-like sensitivity was an important factor.

My guess (and it's just a guess) is that a lot of the LA music business (where most pop records were made back then) gravitated to JBL, if for no other reason than JBL speakers were made in LA. The pro-marketing angle bleeding in to the consumer market has to be an important angle.

 

[GXAlan]

and by the way and thanks let your speakeres be reviewed here.

I also sent Amir an XPL-90.

I misspoke, I am thinking of the 4306, not the 4307.

https://audio.com.pl/testy/stereo/kolumny-glosnikowe/3103-jbl-4306

Also measures pretty "poorly." The 4306, 4307, 4312, and 4319 all fall under the Control Monitor design. The frequency response is intentional, although I think the off-axis performance is a reflection of the cosmetics/desired look. It will be interesting to test the speakers with 70's and 80's pop and rock&roll.

The Midrange looks like a typical Revel Speaker part, somebody has any information on it ?

It's interesting because JBL took the expense of designing custom drivers for the 4319. The

054ALMG-1
105H-2
2213Nd-1

were all designed by the Jerry Moro, who designed these Revel drivers:

B110LDW, B112LDW (B110 and B112 Sub system)
RP18G (Ultima Rhythm II)
RU15G, RU15R (Ultima Sub 30 and Performa B15a)
C32R-4, C32R-5, F32R-5, F32R-6, M22R-6 (Performa Series)
RP10GS (Performa F30)
RU5G (Revel Studio)
Revel 15 (Ultima Gem Sub 15).

But it is clear that the target curve for the Control Monitor is pretty far from what we consider ideal in many cases, and the off-axis sound is compromised, unless that is part of the design specification.

 

[Maplegrovemusic]

I have two questions . First is - The speaker amir measured is vintage ? Bought from Japan and delivered to amir . Does the person who bought them live in Japan or a different country ? Second question is did Amir use the treble and bass attenuators to dial in his room for listening ? Thats what there designed for . Could the brightness have been fixed using the treble attenuator ? Thanks

 

[tuga]

For some reason the Asian market is obsessed with 1950s US speaker technology.

Big brown box , big woofer ( let's not assume inadequacy) and a big horn/wave guide ( ok it's kinda hard not to now ) .

Still i was wanting a pair of these too but Amirm says they are rubbish so that's that... Maybe the Harman cheques have started to bounce .

You could try the LSR6332s: https://www.jbl.com/studio-monitors/LSR6332R.html

 

[tuga]

It's very much a stretch, but note how the on-axis response is quite close to the opposite for that last curve? At the angle I had the speakers set up (about 25 degrees) the correlation would probably be even closer (shifts the dip from 1.8kHz to about 2kHz)

It's an interesting theory.

Mine is that they did their best with the available ingredients and considering the aesthetic requirements (reproducing a '70s box).

 

[GXAlan]

I have two questions . First is - The speaker amir measured is vintage ? Bought from Japan and delivered to amir . Does the person who bought them live in Japan or a different country ? Second question is did Amir use the treble and bass attenuators to dial in his room for listening ? Thats what there designed for . Could the brightness have been fixed using the treble attenuator ? Thanks

2010 vintage. Designed to capture the Control Monitor sound of the late 70’s. Among the last US made JBLs. The speakers are still in production but in Indonesia now.

I live in the US, but had them shipped from Japan to Amir.

Grilles were on which adds to diffraction and Amir didn’t tweak the attenuators (L-pads). The crossover is 800 and 3.5 kHz, so the brightness could be tamed with the dials. They are like variable resistors which decrease energy but the L-pad design keeps impedance stable so there is no crossover frequency shift with higher or lower volumes.

 

[Liberal Democracy]

2010 vintage. Designed to capture the Control Monitor sound of the late 70’s. Among the last US made JBLs. The speakers are still in production but in Indonesia now.

I live in the US, but had them shipped from Japan to Amir.

Grilles were on which adds to diffraction and Amir didn’t tweak the attenuators (L-pads). The crossover is 800 and 3.5 kHz, so the brightness could be tamed with the dials. They are like variable resistors which decrease energy but the L-pad design keeps impedance stable so there is no crossover frequency shift with higher or lower volumes.

Brilliant, the results are a bit disappointing as I was looking at these for myself but then the value of sending them just increases so thank you .

 

[GXAlan]

For some reason the Asian market is obsessed with 1950s US speaker technology.

Big brown box , big woofer ( let's not assume inadequacy) and a big horn/wave guide ( ok it's kinda hard not to now ) .

Still i was wanting a pair of these too but Amirm says they are rubbish so that's that... Maybe the Harman cheques have started to bounce .

As a moderator, you shouldn’t make comments like “inadequacy” as it reflects poorly on you and on this site.

The Japanese also like their 4367, Everest and K2’s, all of which measure well too.

I think several things are in play:
- smaller rooms. JBL Japanese speakers tend to be voiced leaner in the bass despite the large woofers
- lower listening positions and preferred speaker positions.

The typical in room response for an average US room is likely very different from a typical in room response from a Japanese room. I suspect that the average room is has more attenuation from furniture and flooring.

https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/2724

 

[Maplegrovemusic]

2010 vintage. Designed to capture the Control Monitor sound of the late 70’s. Among the last US made JBLs. The speakers are still in production but in Indonesia now.

I live in the US, but had them shipped from Japan to Amir.

Grilles were on which adds to diffraction and Amir didn’t tweak the attenuators (L-pads). The crossover is 800 and 3.5 kHz, so the brightness could be tamed with the dials. They are like variable resistors which decrease energy but the L-pad design keeps impedance stable so there is no crossover frequency shift with higher or lower volumes.

Good info . Many are talking about current models and I think were confused as yours are older ?

2010 vintage. Designed to capture the Control Monitor sound of the late 70’s. Among the last US made JBLs. The speakers are still in production but in Indonesia now.

I live in the US, but had them shipped from Japan to Amir.

Grilles were on which adds to diffraction and Amir didn’t tweak the attenuators (L-pads). The crossover is 800 and 3.5 kHz, so the brightness could be tamed with the dials. They are like variable resistors which decrease energy but the L-pad design keeps impedance stable so there is no crossover frequency shift with higher or lower volumes.

Thanks for the clarification . The new JBL Monitors have been on my radar as a want to hear speaker . I looked at images of the 4319 trying to see if the 2010 model is exactly the same as the 2019 models and could not figure that out . Do you know this info ? Thanks

 

[Vintage57]

The Japanese also like their 4367, Everest and K2’s, all of which measure well too.

Can you share copies of these measurements, other than the manufacturers, I'm a lot curious and a little bit skeptical.

 

[q3cpma]

As a moderator, you shouldn’t make comments like “inadequacy” as it reflects poorly on you and on this site.

The Japanese also like their 4367, Everest and K2’s, all of which measure well too.

I think several things are in play:
- smaller rooms. JBL Japanese speakers tend to be voiced leaner in the bass despite the large woofers
- lower listening positions and preferred speaker positions.

The typical in room response for an average US room is likely very different from a typical in room response from a Japanese room. I suspect that the average room is has more attenuation from furniture and flooring.

https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/2724

Argumentum ad temperatum is annoying and reflects poorly on you. This isn't another Stereophile where ad money is a sword of Damocles used to enforce "professional correctness" (even stronger than the political kind) to sanitize langage until it is sterile enough to not offend every potential thin skinned visitor.

Anyway, you could turn your argument around and say that smaller rooms mean stronger reflections at the listening point, which means good off-axis behaviour is even more important.

 

[Liberal Democracy]

Argumentum ad temperatum is annoying and reflects poorly on you. This isn't another Stereophile where ad money is a sword of Damocles used to enforce "professional correctness" (even stronger than the political kind) to sanitize langage until it is sterile enough to not offend every potential thin skinned visitor.

Anyway, you could turn your argument around and say that smaller rooms mean stronger reflections at the listening point, which means good off-axis behaviour is even more important.

He's probably right to be fair but I thought the caveat that I wanted a pair too bought me into the joke and thusly made it ok.

It's perfectly valid, there is a obsession with outdated US speaker designs .

 

[q3cpma]

He's probably right to be fair but I thought the caveat that I wanted a pair too bought me into the joke and thusly made it ok.

It's perfectly valid, there is a obsession with outdated US speaker designs .

I think that "inadequate" is already a very gentle word.

 

[GXAlan]

Can you share copies of these measurements, other than the manufacturers, I'm a lot curious and a little bit skeptical.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulle...7-first-listen&p=384174&viewfull=1#post384174

Those are the internal Harman numbers which Amir has shown to be pretty accurate.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?35028-S3900-S4700-dbx-DriveRack-260
With digital crossover.

 

[QMuse]

As a moderator, you shouldn’t make comments like “inadequacy” as it reflects poorly on you and on this site.

Oh, I'm sure @Thomas savage didn't mean to offend anyone. He simply watches too much of cheap Asian porn as he spends most of his money on beer.

 

[tuga]

Can you share copies of these measurements, other than the manufacturers, I'm a lot curious and a little bit skeptical.

I have measurements of a few more JBLs that I can post:

4365

DD66000

S9900

(THD at 85dB)